[Philbrew]

I want to do a 6 gal. Doppelbock with a mini-mash and some steeped crystal grains for flavor and color.  The mini-mash will have a lb. of Melanoiden and a lb. of Pilsner malt in 3-1/2 qts., single infusion mini-BIAB for an hour.  I'm assuming that I'll need to do a 60 min. boil because of the partial mash.  I'm going to add 9 lbs. of LME at some point in the boil.  Will the timing of extract addition affect anything other than hop utilization?  Will it hurt to add the LME at the start of the boil?

[kramerog]

The timing of the LME addition can also affect the color a little. 

[dmtaylor]

9 lb LME seems a bit much.  Cut back to around 7-7.5 lb?

Also 1 lb melanoidin seems a bit much.  Cut back to about 0.5 lb.

With a doppelbock, you can safely add all your extract up front.  The major effect is darkening, and darkness is just fine in a doppelbock.  Hop utilization will also be reduced a bit as you mentioned, but again, in a doppelbock, which is not a heavily hopped style, this is no big deal.

For more information...

[Philbrew]

Thanks Dave.  Your thoughts on why to cut back on the Melanoidin?

[santoch]

What Dave is saying is that whole lb in this batch is a bit much and unnecessary.

Sugars and starches change under heat.  This is the same Maillard reaction that changes your bread into toast. In a thick, heavy wort, this effect is even more intensified.  Adding melanoidan malt increases this further.

HTH-

[dmtaylor]

Melanoidin malt tastes like the black edges of darkly toasted bread crust.  Too much can take the burnt toast effect over the top.  You only need a little bit of that.  If you want your beer to taste very darkly toasted, go with the full pound.  I think a half pound will do your beer good.  But it's yours, do whatever you think you'll like.

[Philbrew]

Thanks for the info Dave and Santoch.
Yes, I'm going to cut back on the Mel to 1/2 lb. or less.

[Joe Sr.]

I'd be a little concerned about attenuation with 7+ lbs of LME.  Maybe replace a pound of that with table sugar.

You want a malty beer, but you don't want an underattenuated cloying beer.

[dmtaylor]

I'd be a little concerned about attenuation with 7+ lbs of LME.  Maybe replace a pound of that with table sugar.

You want a malty beer, but you don't want an underattenuated cloying beer.

+100 to that.

[Philbrew]

I'd be a little concerned about attenuation with 7+ lbs of LME.  Maybe replace a pound of that with table sugar.

You want a malty beer, but you don't want an underattenuated cloying beer.

Boy...I dunno.  The combination of the LME I'm using (Williams) and yeast (WY2124) seems to attenuate quite well.  My last brew was 6-1/4 gal. in the fermenter of a 1.060 Marzen (a little high) that finished at 1.010.  It had 8-1/2 lbs of LME, a lb. of pils grain that I mini-mashed (and didn't know what the F**k I was doing) and 1-1/2 lbs. of steeped crystal grains.  Six days since bottling and not fully carbed yet but the finish seems crisp to me.  And the malt flavors are lovely.

Then again, this doppelbock I'm dithering about is going to be the biggest beer I've yet done at 1.087 (per BeerSmith).  What to do...what to do?

[santoch]

Whatever you do, make sure you build up enough yeast and pitch into a well-aerated wort.

use a yeast calculator like on http://www.mrmalty.com

[Joe Sr.]

I'd be a little concerned about attenuation with 7+ lbs of LME.  Maybe replace a pound of that with table sugar.

You want a malty beer, but you don't want an underattenuated cloying beer.

Boy...I dunno.  The combination of the LME I'm using (Williams) and yeast (WY2124) seems to attenuate quite well.  My last brew was 6-1/4 gal. in the fermenter of a 1.060 Marzen (a little high) that finished at 1.010.  It had 8-1/2 lbs of LME, a lb. of pils grain that I mini-mashed (and didn't know what the F**k I was doing) and 1-1/2 lbs. of steeped crystal grains.  Six days since bottling and not fully carbed yet but the finish seems crisp to me.  And the malt flavors are lovely.

Then again, this doppelbock I'm dithering about is going to be the biggest beer I've yet done at 1.087 (per BeerSmith).  What to do...what to do?

Go with what you are comfortable with.  There is a huge degree of variability in the fermentability of extracts.  If you've found one that works for your process, stick with it.

If attenuation ever becomes an issue, replacing some extract with sugar is a reliable tool.

[Philbrew]

Whatever you do, make sure you build up enough yeast and pitch into a well-aerated wort.

use a yeast calculator like on http://www.mrmalty.com

Yes, I forgot about that.  Big lagers need LOTS of healthy yeast.
Will pitch WY2124 slurry from a 1.060 beer harvested on 4/29 into a starter to get the yeasties cranked up.  Then pitch the whole thing into the DB when the starter is near high kraesen.

[Philbrew]

I'd be a little concerned about attenuation with 7+ lbs of LME.  Maybe replace a pound of that with table sugar.

You want a malty beer, but you don't want an underattenuated cloying beer.

Dave and Joe Sr.,
I've got extra corn sugar on hand.  It seems that taking out 2 lbs. of extract and adding 1 lb. of corn sugar might be a good move.  Would that make a flavor difference vs. table sugar?  Wouldn't think so.

[dmtaylor]

You can use corn sugar and regular table sugar pretty much interchangeably.  I have used table sugar for all of my random sugar needs including priming sugar for more than 10 years.  Corn sugar will work just as well, but it's more expensive, so that's why I use table sugar.