Author Topic: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager  (Read 5389 times)

rabeb25

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 08:27:26 am »
The way I look at it is this...

Increase the pitch rate or the temp(personally I would do temp). 2 packs would be fine at 53ish(but not below). FWIW, YMMV, and all the other disclaimers.

You have to try pretty hard to over pitch a lager and I can guarantee you, you will never over pitch on the yeasts first fermentation. If your lager yeasts are not chewing though ~12 gravity points per day, you did not pitch enough yeast. For this beer in question, I would be at FG (1.010ish) 4 days from brewday.

Cheers, and good luck!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 08:34:24 am by rabeb25 »

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 02:29:08 pm »
The way I look at it is this...

Increase the pitch rate or the temp(personally I would do temp). 2 packs would be fine at 53ish(but not below). FWIW, YMMV, and all the other disclaimers.

You have to try pretty hard to over pitch a lager and I can guarantee you, you will never over pitch on the yeasts first fermentation. If your lager yeasts are not chewing though ~12 gravity points per day, you did not pitch enough yeast. For this beer in question, I would be at FG (1.010ish) 4 days from brewday.

Cheers, and good luck!

But don't make the mistake of racking it just because it hit terminal gravity in those 4 or 5 days!  Let the yeast do some cleanup on a lager.  See the Brulosopher lager schedule for the short turn lager technique. You can go grain to glass in 24 days. It really works.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

S. cerevisiae

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 06:01:12 pm »
You guys are missing the big picture.  It does not make a darn bit of difference if one pitches 200 billion cells or 400 billions cells in a non-high gravity (i.e., non-hypertonic) solution, especially one that is fermented below the temperature at which most microflora give up the ghost. The maximum cell density for 1 liter is roughly 200 billion cells. A volume of 5.25 US gallons is approximately equal to 20 liters; therefore, the maximum cell density for 20 liters is 20 x 200 billion = 4 trillion cells.  Unless one pitches 4 trillion cells, the fermentation is going to experience a period of exponential growth.  What matters is dissolved O2 and the amount of carbon that is available to the yeast cells. Sugar is carbon bound to water; hence, the term carbohydrate (all of the sugars found in wort are multiples of CH2O). Yeast cells consume carbon.  Given enough carbon and O2, one could fully attenuate a batch of wort by pitching just one yeast cell.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 07:09:45 pm by S. cerevisiae »

Offline metron-brewer

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2015, 06:11:45 pm »
I am planning on pitching two packs of yeast. I am also planning on bumping my fermentation temp up to 53.
Ron B.
White Bear Lake, MN

Offline bengelbrau

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 07:43:02 pm »
Relax... I had a 1.095 OG doppelbock, pitched with one pack of 34-70 (non-rehydrated), and scored a 42 in the first round of NHC. The wort was well O2ed, and the pitch rate was sufficient to yield a great beer.

Offline metron-brewer

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 07:55:28 pm »
Relaxed for sure. Thanks for all the input.
Ron B.
White Bear Lake, MN

Offline majorvices

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2015, 04:50:20 am »
I am planning on pitching two packs of yeast. I am also planning on bumping my fermentation temp up to 53.

I'd keep the temp a little lower for a pils and that strain. 48-50 with 2 rehydrated packs will be fine. I'm brewing a pils next week with the same strain - 12 gallons and 4 packs @ 48 degrees.

rabeb25

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2015, 06:45:11 am »
The way I look at it is this...

Increase the pitch rate or the temp(personally I would do temp). 2 packs would be fine at 53ish(but not below). FWIW, YMMV, and all the other disclaimers.

You have to try pretty hard to over pitch a lager and I can guarantee you, you will never over pitch on the yeasts first fermentation. If your lager yeasts are not chewing though ~12 gravity points per day, you did not pitch enough yeast. For this beer in question, I would be at FG (1.010ish) 4 days from brewday.

Cheers, and good luck!

But don't make the mistake of racking it just because it hit terminal gravity in those 4 or 5 days!  Let the yeast do some cleanup on a lager.  See the Brulosopher lager schedule for the short turn lager technique. You can go grain to glass in 24 days. It really works.

No offense to Brulospher(I read all his stuff, and he will tell you this as well), but he did not come up with this lager method. It is based off the Narziss Method, which has been around for quite some time (50+ years???). I have been doing my accelerated lager method (also based off Narziss, and slightly different from Brulospher for close to 12 years). I have no issues going grain to glass in 14 days (sometimes less) However.. My accelerating method is not to push beer to serving as fast as possible, its to free up fermenters. I have attached my latest lager.. OG 1.050, FG 1.009. FG hit in ~5 days from brew day. Ferment temp 53f. Beer is now going to 30f where it will sits for ~3-5 days and then be kegged.


rabeb25

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2015, 06:51:59 am »
You guys are missing the big picture.  It does not make a darn bit of difference if one pitches 200 billion cells or 400 billions cells in a non-high gravity (i.e., non-hypertonic) solution, especially one that is fermented below the temperature at which most microflora give up the ghost. The maximum cell density for 1 liter is roughly 200 billion cells. A volume of 5.25 US gallons is approximately equal to 20 liters; therefore, the maximum cell density for 20 liters is 20 x 200 billion = 4 trillion cells.  Unless one pitches 4 trillion cells, the fermentation is going to experience a period of exponential growth.  What matters is dissolved O2 and the amount of carbon that is available to the yeast cells. Sugar is carbon bound to water; hence, the term carbohydrate (all of the sugars found in wort are multiples of CH2O). Yeast cells consume carbon.  Given enough carbon and O2, one could fully attenuate a batch of wort by pitching just one yeast cell.

Sure, you CAN...You CAN do a lot of things.. It all matters what your end game is. Do you want to pitch one cell and wait a year for your FG to be hit? Cool! However, I don't, so I pitch proper amounts of healthy yeast, with plenty of pure O2, at the proper pH and "proper" fermentation times.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2015, 07:01:54 am »
The way I look at it is this...

Increase the pitch rate or the temp(personally I would do temp). 2 packs would be fine at 53ish(but not below). FWIW, YMMV, and all the other disclaimers.

You have to try pretty hard to over pitch a lager and I can guarantee you, you will never over pitch on the yeasts first fermentation. If your lager yeasts are not chewing though ~12 gravity points per day, you did not pitch enough yeast. For this beer in question, I would be at FG (1.010ish) 4 days from brewday.

Cheers, and good luck!

But don't make the mistake of racking it just because it hit terminal gravity in those 4 or 5 days!  Let the yeast do some cleanup on a lager.  See the Brulosopher lager schedule for the short turn lager technique. You can go grain to glass in 24 days. It really works.

No offense to Brulospher(I read all his stuff, and he will tell you this as well), but he did not come up with this lager method. It is based off the Narziss Method, which has been around for quite some time (50+ years???). I have been doing my accelerated lager method (also based off Narziss, and slightly different from Brulospher for close to 12 years). I have no issues going grain to glass in 14 days (sometimes less) However.. My accelerating method is not to push beer to serving as fast as possible, its to free up fermenters. I have attached my latest lager.. OG 1.050, FG 1.009. FG hit in ~5 days from brew day. Ferment temp 53f. Beer is now going to 30f where it will sits for ~3-5 days and then be kegged.



I have said the same on here, have been doing it for 4 or 5 years, like the results. It does free up the conical quickly during lager season.
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Offline metron-brewer

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2015, 07:17:51 am »
Alright to circle back and summarize.
Per Mark (S. cerevisiae) Pitching in to a low gravity wort is almost like pitching into a starter, pitch into well oxygenated wort and a slight under pitch will not affect the outcome of the fermentation.

Per Keith (majorvices), this yeast is plenty capable of fermentation at temperatures of 48-50 degrees even though the manufacturers spec sheet indicates an "ideal" temp of 53 to 59.

Since I am not concerned with a quick turnaround, and in the spirit of home brewing, "try it yourself to see what works", I will be pitching (2) packets of re-hydrated yeast into well oxygenated wort in the neighborhood of 1.048, and fermenting in the 48-50 degree range.

Cheers Guys and again, thanks for all the input.
Ron B.
White Bear Lake, MN

Offline metron-brewer

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2015, 11:02:58 am »
I just wanted to post the results of this brew.
Brewed 05-31-2015 O.G. 1.044, pitched (2) packs re-hydrated 34/70 at a temp of 49, Set Point temp of 48 = fermentation temps of 48-50. After no activity the first day I bumped the Set Point to 49. After the second day with no visible signs of fermentation I opened up the fermentor and took a gravity sample, there was no change from O.G., I bumped the Set Point another degree to 50 so fermentation temp should run 50-52. On the third day following brewing I again opened up the fermentor and found a full head of kreausen. On 06-24-2015,  I took a final gravity reading of 1.012, calculated 72%AA, yeast is rated 73-77. I detected no off flavors. I let the beer sit on the yeast for another 12 days for clean up and kegged on 07-06-2015. Took a taste test last night and it's very tasty. I detected a pretty subtle faint sweetness to it. I'm going to enter it in the 2015 Minnesota State Fair competition so we'll see what the judges think of my first ever Pils.

As a side or follow up, I harvested the yeast on 07-06 and re-pitched the slurry into a "Hoppy Pils" on 07-12-2015. Fermentation at 50-52 degrees and it took off in less than a day developing a full head of kreausen within 24 hours.
Ron B.
White Bear Lake, MN

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: 2 or 3 Packs Dry Yeast for Lager
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2015, 12:12:51 pm »
Congrats!  I hope your beer does well in the competition.

I never responded to the points above about Brulosopher, but I readily acknowledge the Narziss source and did not mean to imply that Marshall came up with it...but he has recently advocated for it.

And, truth be told, there are lager Brewers winning awards with the old school way of pitching warm and slowly dropping to fermentation temp upon visible signs of fermentation appearing.  So YMMV for sure.

What has me convinced in terms of a relatively newer thought  (to my understanding, at least) is Mark's view about pitching highest vitality yeast, rather than quiescent yeast.  That is probably another old school thought, too, but I had not heard about it before.

To the OP - be very sanitary when repitching yeasts.  Many suggest avoiding it entirely in the warmer months due to the level of airborne contaminants...but again YMMV.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"