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Author Topic: Dry hop vs post boil  (Read 3827 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 03:59:05 pm »
I rarely dry hop because I've been happy with the whirlpool hops. No problems with DMS and I brew a lot with pils.

One of these days I'm going to brew side by side with whirlpool vs. dry hop and see how far apart they are. Hasn't somebody else already done that?

I have. I think whirlpool hopping has enough aroma for many styles as is, but I do still dry hop most American styles - however with the dry hops backed off a bit most times.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 04:21:50 pm »
Because it's still producing DMS but no rolling boil to drive it off


Not sure I agree with this statement.  You boil Pils malt longer to drive off all of the DMS.  Once it's out, it's out.  It doesn't keep producing in perpetuity.
I'm going to go with this thought. If I find DMS I'll rethink it. I have yet to find DMS in any of my beers, so probably im going to slay another boogie man. I think that its something I heard on a podcast, that pils malt has so much SMM that even after 90 minutes it will still convert to DMS. This won't be the first podcast dogma that will prove untrue. Thanks for chiming in and encouraging me to try it out.

Offline mchrispen

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2015, 05:14:50 pm »
Hmmm. I am the odd man out here. I whirlpool/stand above 180F. Usually start whirlpooling at 5 minutes, then add hops when I flameout. Whirlpool runs for at least 15 minutes, then stands for 15 minutes. I get some bitterness this way and no signs of DMS, even with a pils grist. I have taken to FWH and/or 60 minute for about half of my IBU target, and make up the rest at whirlpool - works really well for a saison with several ounces of Styrians or Tettnanger.  Good flavor and aroma expression. Of course, dry hopping to bring up the aroma.
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Offline braufessor

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2015, 01:19:21 pm »
I have been brewing a bunch of 5% APA's lately experimenting with no dry hop.  4-6 ounces of hops at 175 degrees and let it sit for 30-45 minutes before chilling the rest of the way down - I stir the wort back up from time to time to get the hops up in suspension. I let it sit another 30-45 minutes after that to really let the hop material settle out in my kettle.   

Then, no dry hop.

I have been really happy with the results - especially for making an over-hopped APA.  I should revisit and dry hop a batch for a comparison, but, the beers have been turning out how I like them.

The main "pros" in my opinion as I have done this is that I can turn the beers around faster because I am not waiting for dry hops to settle out.  Don't need to transfer to secondary for dry hopping.  Sometimes my dry hopping has made my beer grassy or not what I had hoped it would be.  These beers have been going grain to glass in 12-14 days without any problems.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 01:40:41 pm »
Pretty much gospel on the pils producing DMS if left hot and covered, but if you leave the lid off the kettle, you should be good to go with pils and DMS being driven off (I use a screen in the warm weather times to cover the kettle and let the DMS blow off while doing any kind of stand or when using the CFC.  Just one time did I put the lid on my pils when I got my counterflow chiller and DMS showed up to the party for that brew.  Gotta love that corn lager though....
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 01:50:47 pm »
Pretty much gospel on the pils producing DMS if left hot and covered, but if you leave the lid off the kettle, you should be good to go with pils and DMS being driven off (I use a screen in the warm weather times to cover the kettle and let the DMS blow off while doing any kind of stand or when using the CFC.  Just one time did I put the lid on my pils when I got my counterflow chiller and DMS showed up to the party for that brew.  Gotta love that corn lager though....

So you made Rolling Rock on that one then.  :D   I did on my very first AG pilsner - I wasn't up to speed on the 90 minute boil back then. 
Jon H.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2015, 02:12:39 pm »
It was a 90 minute boil, one of dozens done, but I didn't stop to think about the lid being on the hot kettle for the first time use of the CFC.  The run off was for 10 gallons, probably only 10-15 minutes tops, but enough to generate DMS by the hot wort sitting in the kettle waiting to flow through the CFC.  Now I use a window screen material over the kettle to keep the critters out when using the CFC.

Kinda Rolling Rock-ish.  It was drinkable and not as strong as RR in terms of DMS, but definitely noticeable by the National BJCP who tried it and pointed that out to me. And quickly advised why.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2015, 03:24:40 pm »
So after boiling pils wort for 90 minutes there IS smm still available but you'll be fine as long as you don't cover it? Or there is NOT smm so covered or not you're fine either way?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2015, 03:54:18 pm »
So after boiling pils wort for 90 minutes there IS smm still available but you'll be fine as long as you don't cover it? Or there is NOT smm so covered or not you're fine either way?

I don't fully cover the pot, Jim. I cover about half way now, then open to stir every few minutes. I have covered in the past fully for as long as 30 minutes (only opening to stir) and didn't pick any up.
Jon H.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2015, 06:14:30 pm »
It was a 90 minute boil, one of dozens done, but I didn't stop to think about the lid being on the hot kettle for the first time use of the CFC.  The run off was for 10 gallons, probably only 10-15 minutes tops, but enough to generate DMS by the hot wort sitting in the kettle waiting to flow through the CFC.  Now I use a window screen material over the kettle to keep the critters out when using the CFC.

Kinda Rolling Rock-ish.  It was drinkable and not as strong as RR in terms of DMS, but definitely noticeable by the National BJCP who tried it and pointed that out to me. And quickly advised why.

By the way, I know you brew a ton of lagers. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know to boil 90 with pils, just that, at the time,  I didn't   ;D.  That brew day was sort of a comedy of errors that ended with 5 gallons of pretty Rolling Rock-ish beer. Light bulb came on when I got the cause/effect of DMS.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 06:16:53 pm by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2015, 07:15:58 pm »
As for the DMS thing, I've done whirlpool hopping with a pils base and get no DMS.  But I always boil pils for 90 minutes, so by that point the DMS is driven off. I'm pretty sensitive to DMS and can't find any.

That's been my experience as well.  I have performed many hop stands with pils malt; however, my standard boil length is 90 minutes.  I boil thirty minutes before I make my first hop addition.

Offline f.stepanski

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2015, 07:12:13 pm »
Thanks all..  Apologize for confusing question, very much appreciate the exceptional information and think I've found my answer..  My intent was let's say my receipt for a 60 min boil called for a hop add at 60 and 2nd at 30, then a dry hopping..  The total IBU was to be 100...    Soooo...  What (if anything) happens to my IBUs if I should use a whirlpool hop at post boil vice dry  hop.  Would those hops I added at 60 & 30 continue to add to total IBUs.....
Black IPA & Hefeweizen on draft, fermenting an APA...

Offline erockrph

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2015, 07:34:15 pm »
Thanks all..  Apologize for confusing question, very much appreciate the exceptional information and think I've found my answer..  My intent was let's say my receipt for a 60 min boil called for a hop add at 60 and 2nd at 30, then a dry hopping..  The total IBU was to be 100...    Soooo...  What (if anything) happens to my IBUs if I should use a whirlpool hop at post boil vice dry  hop.  Would those hops I added at 60 & 30 continue to add to total IBUs.....

Depends on the temp of your hop stand. Isomerization of alpha-acids slows down as the temperature drops. If you're hopstanding at 170F or so, the extra utilization from those early boil additions will be negligible. If you perform your hop stand at a higher temp, then you will probably gain some IBU's. Even then, 60-minute or longer additions won't add much more at that point (maybe 10% more IBU's, barely noticible). But a 30-minute or shorter addition may give quite a bit more than expected.
Eric B.

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2015, 10:00:49 pm »
So after boiling pils wort for 90 minutes there IS smm still available but you'll be fine as long as you don't cover it? Or there is NOT smm so covered or not you're fine either way?

I just think you risk DMS at any point with Pils malt if you cover fully...some thing less will probably be okay, but I fear a complete cover on hot wort.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Dry hop vs post boil
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2015, 10:07:21 pm »
So after boiling pils wort for 90 minutes there IS smm still available but you'll be fine as long as you don't cover it? Or there is NOT smm so covered or not you're fine either way?

I just think you risk DMS at any point with Pils malt if you cover fully...some thing less will probably be okay, but I fear a complete cover on hot wort.
I sent an email to Breiss asking how much smm is in their pils malt, and if it's all gone after a 90 min boil, if not how long at boiling before it's all gone. They're pretty good at fielding questions.