Author Topic: sour melange blend  (Read 885 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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sour melange blend
« on: May 01, 2015, 01:02:34 PM »
Any preferences for a sour melange blend for a Supplication style beer?  How about Wyeast 3278 vs 3763. What's the difference between the two? I read somewhere that the Roeselare blend produces more sourness. Any other candidates? Thanks!
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2015, 01:45:51 PM »
I did two fruited sours last summer with roselare primary pitch no starter. A month in temp control at 68f then I put in my fruit and moved to a closet for about 7 months. They turned out great. Plenty of sour. Moderate funk.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2015, 01:51:27 PM »
There's a lot of apathy towards 3278, mostly about the level of sourness. I have had pretty good luck with it (particularly in combination with dregs of other sour beers). 3278 throws a lot more funk, IMO, than 3767 and I've had no problem with acid production but it needs time.

Supplication is definitely acid-forward so maybe 3278 isn't the best option. It might have too much brett funk to replicate that beer. Roeselare would be a fine option as would the WL sour blends. I hear lots of good things about The Yeast Bay Melange as well. East Coast Yeast blends are good but hard to find.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2015, 11:04:26 PM »
Thanks, so 3278 is out...
Frank P.

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Offline upperbocobrewers

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 06:01:40 PM »
What did you decide on this? I love Supplication and am interested to hear what you're trying. I'd agree w reverseapche on the 3278. I did an Oud Bruin w it that had quite noticeable funk aroma in less than 2 months! Super happy w it though, after 8 mo, some Bruery bottle dregs, and aging on oak :)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 06:14:41 PM »
What did you decide on this? I love Supplication and am interested to hear what you're trying. I'd agree w reverseapche on the 3278. I did an Oud Bruin w it that had quite noticeable funk aroma in less than 2 months! Super happy w it though, after 8 mo, some Bruery bottle dregs, and aging on oak :)
We have postponed this until after the summer. But we will ferment with a relatively neutral yeast, then pitch the Roeselare blend and the dregs of  couple of Supplication bottles.
Frank P.

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Offline brewinhard

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 07:57:20 PM »
Your beer will sour more quickly if you pitch your souring blend (i.e. Roselare and bottle dregs) directly for primary (providing you can get somewhat fresh blends).  Doing it in this fashion allows the brett/bacteria to get first crack at the majority of the sugars allowing them to increase their populations to more quickly and efficiently sour the beer. 

With that being said I am sure that many brewers have made excellent sour beers pitching a neutral strain first followed by dregs/blends in secondary for aging.  That is just not my personal preference. 

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2015, 11:06:25 PM »
Your beer will sour more quickly if you pitch your souring blend (i.e. Roselare and bottle dregs) directly for primary (providing you can get somewhat fresh blends).  Doing it in this fashion allows the brett/bacteria to get first crack at the majority of the sugars allowing them to increase their populations to more quickly and efficiently sour the beer. 

With that being said I am sure that many brewers have made excellent sour beers pitching a neutral strain first followed by dregs/blends in secondary for aging.  That is just not my personal preference.

We are going to brew a Supplication clone which has a sacch fermentation before the souring blend is added. This is basically the same way Rodenbach is brewed. So I don't think we are going to deviate...
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: sour melange blend
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 07:02:26 AM »
So I don't think we are going to deviate...
I concur. The plan is made, now all we need to do is brew the damn thing. :)

Meanwhile, I have some personal experience with the Sour Melange blend from The Yeast Bay. I pitched it into a 1051 beer which is essentially the last runnings of a heavier beer I brewed. No extra fermentables or starches added, just sparged the remainder of the mash once I got the first runnings (about 1.090) off of it.
Fermented in primary with Sour Melange which took 2 days to develop krausen. Not a particularly appealing fermentation, smell-wise: the blend produces some vaguely unpleasant intermediary metabolites, which the Bretts seems to be able to clean up, at the expense of cleanliness.

4 months later, the brew smell "dirty" as in "dusty with a rustic farmyard touch". No horse, no barn, just a vague alusion to rural farmhouse courtyards. Medium sourness, with hints of acetic, comparable to Rodenbach Grand Cru.

As to the Supplication clone: we may need a cleaner souring agent than the Sour Mélange. Roesselare Blend I've no experience with but let's not change that plan and stick to primary with a neutral yeast, and allow the Roesselare to munch on the the remaining starches for the next year or so. The Bretts in that blend will clean up any dirtiness, but will hopefully provide a cleaner smell than what Sour Melange provides.

As to quick souring: I think the whole point of brewing a beer like Supplication is to take it slowly. You can brew sour beers in a short amount of time (Berliner Weisses for example) but in this case, the Lacto and Pedio can take their own sweet (ha-ha) time to turn the beer into a sour.
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