Author Topic: FWH  (Read 1735 times)

Offline flbrewer

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FWH
« on: May 04, 2015, 12:37:25 AM »
Who here utilizes the First Wort Hop technique? It seems easy enough. How many IBU's (%) do you typically aim for using this technique as part of your overall hop schedule?

Online dmtaylor

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Re: FWH
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 02:40:16 AM »
I don't do it... but I can tell you that for the purposes of IBU calculations, treat it like it's in the boil the whole time... because it is, and photospectroscopy proves that FWH gives your more IBUs than regular boil additions.  Tasting experiments have been all over the board as to how bitter it actually tastes.  Everyone refers to the old one from like 50 years ago where the FWH resulted in "smoother" bitterness.  However the experiments I've read about more recently couldn't tell much difference between FWH and a regular 60-minute addition.  Which makes perfect sense to me.  If you want to try FWH, consider doing an experiment with two batches in one day using different hopping techniques, and please report back your experience.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 02:41:48 AM by dmtaylor »
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Offline toby

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Re: FWH
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 02:58:59 AM »
I FWH everything.  IIRC, it's a roughly 10% boost in IBUs calculated compared to the same length of boil.

Offline erockrph

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Re: FWH
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 03:01:44 AM »
I used to use it, but now I've moved to 60 min + hopstand ± dry hops for pretty much everything. I definitely felt the character of FWH was different than a 60-minute addition, but I never did a side-by-side myself to confirm it.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: FWH
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 11:23:46 AM »
I use FWH on any style that is hop forward.  Although I've never done side by side comparisons, I think it gives a smoother bitterness, with more hop flavor than a regular boil addition.  Even though the measured bitterness may be higher, the perceived bitterness seems lower.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: FWH
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 11:56:18 AM »
I used to use it, but now I've moved to 60 min + hopstand ± dry hops for pretty much everything. I definitely felt the character of FWH was different than a 60-minute addition, but I never did a side-by-side myself to confirm it.

+1.  I did FWH for a long time but I'm liking this method better for most styles. For beers that don't get much or any late hopping (helles, hefe, etc.) I still use FWH with no whirlpool hopping, though.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 12:06:26 PM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline majorvices

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Re: FWH
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 11:58:58 AM »
I use FWH on any style that is hop forward.  Although I've never done side by side comparisons, I think it gives a smoother bitterness, with more hop flavor than a regular boil addition.  Even though the measured bitterness may be higher, the perceived bitterness seems lower.

I agree. I brew an all FWH kolsch and it has amazing smooth bitterness and great hop flavor. Anecdotal evidence aside, it works well for some beers. Definitely try it and see for yourself.

Offline Stevie

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Re: FWH
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 01:03:51 PM »

I use FWH on any style that is hop forward.  Although I've never done side by side comparisons, I think it gives a smoother bitterness, with more hop flavor than a regular boil addition.  Even though the measured bitterness may be higher, the perceived bitterness seems lower.

I agree. I brew an all FWH kolsch and it has amazing smooth bitterness and great hop flavor. Anecdotal evidence aside, it works well for some beers. Definitely try it and see for yourself.
+1 - one of my favorite beers.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: FWH
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 01:10:20 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.
2. He keeps the temp at 170F+/10F
3. He hold that temp for an hour, so do other things when you can.

I have tried it and like the results in some beers like a Helles or a CAP.
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Online dmtaylor

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Re: FWH
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2015, 02:12:14 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.

This is something I would agree with, insomuch as it involves boiling noble hops for a full hour or more.  I find that one of the secrets to creating "that German lager flavor" involves having noble hops in the whole boil.  In my experience, noble hops do not behave the same way as other hops, where you might save most of your hopping for the very end of the boil -- no -- noble hops need a longer boil time to develop their full flavor.  So if you want to try FWH, noble hops are certainly a great option.  Will you get "a smoother bitterness"?  I don't know.  But at least you might achieve "that German lager flavor"..... which you can also get from a normal 60-90 minute boil addition with your nobles.  Don't always just use a high alpha hop for all your bittering, and don't always save all your flavor and aroma hops for the very end of the boil; it's not necessarily always the best way to go for all your beer styles.

</soapbox>
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: FWH
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2015, 02:37:58 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.
2. He keeps the temp at 170F+/10F
3. He hold that temp for an hour, so do other things when you can.

I have tried it and like the results in some beers like a Helles or a CAP.

That's pretty interesting. I've never heard of holding a fwh temp, especially for that period of time. I may have to give that a shot for a helles.  170F is the temp I like for whirlpool steeps, too.
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Offline brewday

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Re: FWH
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2015, 02:55:46 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.
2. He keeps the temp at 170F+/10F
3. He hold that temp for an hour, so do other things when you can.

I have tried it and like the results in some beers like a Helles or a CAP.

That's pretty interesting. I've never heard of holding a fwh temp, especially for that period of time. I may have to give that a shot for a helles.  170F is the temp I like for whirlpool steeps, too.

Similar to mash hops, no?  Although they would continue on to the boil rather than be replaced by new hops.
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Offline toby

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Re: FWH
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2015, 03:07:57 PM »
Similar to mash hops, no?  Although they would continue on to the boil rather than be replaced by new hops.
Mash hops don't seem to contribute much.  Numbers and presentation from an NHC seminar last year...
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/Putting%20Some%20Numbers%20on%20First%20Wort%20and%20Mash%20Hop%20additions.pdf

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: FWH
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2015, 03:08:49 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.
2. He keeps the temp at 170F+/10F
3. He hold that temp for an hour, so do other things when you can.

I have tried it and like the results in some beers like a Helles or a CAP.

That's pretty interesting. I've never heard of holding a fwh temp, especially for that period of time. I may have to give that a shot for a helles.  170F is the temp I like for whirlpool steeps, too.

Similar to mash hops, no?  Although they would continue on to the boil rather than be replaced by new hops.

Yep.

EDIT -  FWIW, I'm not a proponent of mash hopping. I tried it several times and felt like it was a waste of hops. OTOH mash hopping isn't typically 170F/60 minutes.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 03:12:28 PM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline jeffy

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Re: FWH
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2015, 03:15:03 PM »
Here are some tips that I learned from Jeff Renner on FWH.

1. He likes noble or noble hop derivatives for FWH.
2. He keeps the temp at 170F+/10F
3. He hold that temp for an hour, so do other things when you can.

I have tried it and like the results in some beers like a Helles or a CAP.

I brewed a CAP yesterday and used Perle as FWH and Gr. Hallertau in the whirlpool at 170F.  Bittered with Clusters for 60 minutes.  I hope it's as good as the plan.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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