Author Topic: Great Base malt debate?  (Read 1694 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 03:51:51 AM »

Use German malts for German beers, English Malts for English Beers, Scottish malts for Scottish beers and American Malts for American beers. You can use Belgian Malts for Belgian beers, German and French malts work well too. Not too hard to figure out when you look at it that way.
Hmm... I don't know. I've done some side by side malt comparisons and the differences were way more subtle than I expected. I guess all I'm saying is that I believe a world class ESB or Pils can be produced with non-regional malts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I wouldn't say you're wrong. But it would make a bigger difference in maltier styles. At least in my limited experience thats true. A helles or dunkel with with little or no hop flavor and aroma will certainly show a difference between american and german malts.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 03:53:07 AM »


Use German malts for German beers, English Malts for English Beers, Scottish malts for Scottish beers and American Malts for American beers. You can use Belgian Malts for Belgian beers, German and French malts work well too. Not too hard to figure out when you look at it that way.
Hmm... I don't know. I've done some side by side malt comparisons and the differences were way more subtle than I expected. I guess all I'm saying is that I believe a world class ESB or Pils can be produced with non-regional malts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I wouldn't say you're wrong. But it would make a bigger difference in maltier styles. At least in my limited experience thats true. A helles or dunkel with with little or no hop flavor and aroma will certainly show a difference between american and german malts.
xBmt planned!

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 04:05:12 AM »
Looking at it the other direction. Is there a noticeable difference between domestic hallertau and hallertauer hallertau? Most would probably say yes. But if your only using an ounce per 5 gallons at 60 minutes, then probably the difference is not very noticeable. But that doesn't mean that suddenly there's no difference between the two hops.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 10:57:44 AM »
In the end I definitely think quality ingredients, regardless of their origin, is what it the most important. I am personally a fan of the Briess Pale Ale malt. It has a "cookie sweetness" I like that seems to be trying to mimic an English basemalt. But in the end, Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter is going to make a more "authentic" British Bitter than the Briess Pale Ale malt. There would be a good source for your experiment right there.

Offline brulosopher

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Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 01:19:57 PM »
Looking at it the other direction. Is there a noticeable difference between domestic hallertau and hallertauer hallertau? Most would probably say yes. But if your only using an ounce per 5 gallons at 60 minutes, then probably the difference is not very noticeable. But that doesn't mean that suddenly there's no difference between the two hops.
100% agree! Indistinguishability =/= no difference. If I can't perceive a significant difference, however, I won't be too concerned with sourcing regional ingredients that usually end up costing more.

In the end I definitely think quality ingredients, regardless of their origin, is what it the most important. I am personally a fan of the Briess Pale Ale malt. It has a "cookie sweetness" I like that seems to be trying to mimic an English basemalt. But in the end, Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter is going to make a more "authentic" British Bitter than the Briess Pale Ale malt. There would be a good source for your experiment right there.
That's a great xBmt idea! I'm of the opinion that "quality" is hugely relative to the taster's preference. For example, I have friend's who swear EKG is the hop of the gods, I can't stand the stuff, domestic or UK.

Offline MattDel1700

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 01:57:20 PM »
Quote
For example, I have friend's who swear EKG is the hop of the gods, I can't stand the stuff, domestic or UK.

On that note, which seems to be where this exbeeriment is heading, I'd like to see more side-by-sides of UK versus US Fuggles and such. May have to do a quick two-gallon batch and split it.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 02:05:11 PM »
Quote
For example, I have friend's who swear EKG is the hop of the gods, I can't stand the stuff, domestic or UK.

On that note, which seems to be where this exbeeriment is heading, I'd like to see more side-by-sides of UK versus US Fuggles and such. May have to do a quick two-gallon batch and split it.
While we're at it, it would be just as interesting to sample the same hop variety from two different farms in he US. That's an experiment I may have to dig into myself...
Eric B.

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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 02:57:41 PM »
If I had it my way I'd always use regionally consistent base malt or blends of different regional malts. At 50-100% of the grain bill it's tough to make a case that the base malt isn't playing a key role in flavor development in most beers. Unfortunately with rising grain and shipping prices and the unavailability of some grains it's not always easy to do that. Often I am buying what is available at the best value.

Fortunately Avangard is available locally at cheap prices so I've been using that quite a bit recently for my pilsner malt need. German malts are good so I'm happy to use them. For two row I picked up a sack of Schreier domestic malt last year because it was a pretty good deal. So far I've been happy using that as a base malt for several American beers and it's going to go into some sour beers.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 05:49:09 PM »
My first sack of 2 row was Briess, because that's what my LHBS had at the time. I had no issues with it, but also really had nothing to compare it to. My second sack was Rahr after several suggestions here for that Maltster. I have like it a lot, but really have not made many of the same brews as I did with the Briess. That combined with my uneducated palate leaves me with no real opinion other than the Rahr was significantly cheaper, so i know what my third sack will be. As far as just one base malt for most brews, I'm not there yet. I have partial sacks on hand right now of Rahr 2 row, Weyerman Munich I&II, Avangard Pilsner, and Crisp Mari Otter. Sooner or later, I may try same recipes and subbing things out to see what I really like, but I'm not there yet. The best part of sourcing these sacks was finding out that the LHBS offers a 30% discount on sacks of grain that are pre-ordered and pre-paid. As long as I have an idea of what I want to brew, and when, I can get that discount if I am willing to wait up to a couple weeks for it. They have also been willing to let me pre-order/pay for sacks of specific products they do not normally carry in store for small purchases.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 05:57:09 PM »


Use German malts for German beers, English Malts for English Beers, Scottish malts for Scottish beers and American Malts for American beers. You can use Belgian Malts for Belgian beers, German and French malts work well too. Not too hard to figure out when you look at it that way.
Hmm... I don't know. I've done some side by side malt comparisons and the differences were way more subtle than I expected. I guess all I'm saying is that I believe a world class ESB or Pils can be produced with non-regional malts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I wouldn't say you're wrong. But it would make a bigger difference in maltier styles. At least in my limited experience thats true. A helles or dunkel with with little or no hop flavor and aroma will certainly show a difference between american and german malts.
xBmt planned!
Well, they might both produce exceptional beers, but I think authentic ingredients give you an authentic beer, same with cooking.
die Schönheit der bier...

Jesse

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 07:18:15 PM »



Use German malts for German beers, English Malts for English Beers, Scottish malts for Scottish beers and American Malts for American beers. You can use Belgian Malts for Belgian beers, German and French malts work well too. Not too hard to figure out when you look at it that way.
Hmm... I don't know. I've done some side by side malt comparisons and the differences were way more subtle than I expected. I guess all I'm saying is that I believe a world class ESB or Pils can be produced with non-regional malts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I wouldn't say you're wrong. But it would make a bigger difference in maltier styles. At least in my limited experience thats true. A helles or dunkel with with little or no hop flavor and aroma will certainly show a difference between american and german malts.
xBmt planned!
Well, they might both produce exceptional beers, but I think authentic ingredients give you an authentic beer, same with cooking.
But if authentic and inauthentic are indistinguishable from each other, I'm personally okay with not promoting use of regional ingredients. But I'm super cheap and totally appreciate the fact some people prefer using regional ingredients for authenticity's sake.

Offline MattDel1700

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 09:35:54 PM »
Agreed, and I think it says a lot about the priorities. Some individuals, including people at my local homebrew club, want to make historically accurate beers. They do a lot of research to make that happen. I'm less interested in that, and more about making overall better beer, in terms of taste. If I can do that with cheaper ingredients and a single-infusion mash, why wouldn't I? That said, I think the "indistinguishable" point is important, because I'll shell out for producing a better beer.




Use German malts for German beers, English Malts for English Beers, Scottish malts for Scottish beers and American Malts for American beers. You can use Belgian Malts for Belgian beers, German and French malts work well too. Not too hard to figure out when you look at it that way.
Hmm... I don't know. I've done some side by side malt comparisons and the differences were way more subtle than I expected. I guess all I'm saying is that I believe a world class ESB or Pils can be produced with non-regional malts. Maybe I'm wrong.
I wouldn't say you're wrong. But it would make a bigger difference in maltier styles. At least in my limited experience thats true. A helles or dunkel with with little or no hop flavor and aroma will certainly show a difference between american and german malts.
xBmt planned!
Well, they might both produce exceptional beers, but I think authentic ingredients give you an authentic beer, same with cooking.
But if authentic and inauthentic are indistinguishable from each other, I'm personally okay with not promoting use of regional ingredients. But I'm super cheap and totally appreciate the fact some people prefer using regional ingredients for authenticity's sake.

Offline beersk

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Re: Great Base malt debate?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2015, 02:08:16 PM »
Quote from: MattDel1700
If I can do that with cheaper ingredients and a single-infusion mash, why wouldn't I? That said, I think the "indistinguishable" point is important, because I'll shell out for producing a better beer.

I guess if that's what you're after, then by all means, do that. I guess I'd prefer to take it a step further since, really, I'm in this hobby just to make beer, I'm in it to make it the best I possibly can. Sometimes, you get what you pay for, and cheap ingredients aren't necessarily the answer for me. That doesn't mean I'm going to spend $80 for a sack of pils malt, but I'm going to get a good continental pils malt for my German lagers. I'm not going to use Rahr, even though Rahr is good malt. I want it to be authentic, to try and come as close as I can to the original German lager I'm after and I just don't think a domestic pils malt is going to get me there.
But for something like an English stout, I don't think using Maris Otter versus Rahr 2-row will make a lot of different when the roasted/caramel malts are going to do a lot of the talking, as well as the yeast.
die Schönheit der bier...

Jesse