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Author Topic: FWH  (Read 3198 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: FWH
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2015, 02:10:03 pm »
Quote from: denny on May 08, 2015, 02:00:27 pm
Quote from: dmtaylor on May 08, 2015, 01:14:21 pm
Great!  If you sent bombers or multiple bottles of each, I could have several members of my local club in on it, if that helps.  We currently have 3 very active members who are judges (one each Recognized, Certified, and National), and a large handful of others who love contests and experiments like this.

I'll do that, but what I was getting at is that I want you and your club members to do the experiment also once I define the parameters.  The more people we have brewing the beers, the better the data will be.

I think we can do that as well!
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Re: FWH
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2015, 02:15:35 pm »
We have a guy in our club with this on his list of xbeeriments in the near future also.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: FWH
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2015, 02:16:48 pm »
So I could have sworn somewhere that FHW bitterness is more approximate to a 20 min addition, so that's how I've always calculated the IBUs. Apparently I should be setting it for the full 60/90 mins. I guess my recent beers have been more bitter then I planned, but I've no had any complaints!
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: FWH
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2015, 02:18:27 pm »

Quote from: denny on May 07, 2015, 10:15:55 am
FWIW, in the fall/winter I will be recreating my FWH experiment with much tighter controls than the last time I did it.  Maybe then Dave will believe....;)
This one is very high in my list as well, the more data the better!

Quote from: toby on May 08, 2015, 02:15:35 pm
We have a guy in our club with this on his list of xbeeriments in the near future also.
I love this!
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: FWH
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2015, 02:26:15 pm »
Quote from: brulosopher on May 08, 2015, 02:18:27 pm

Quote from: denny on May 07, 2015, 10:15:55 am
FWIW, in the fall/winter I will be recreating my FWH experiment with much tighter controls than the last time I did it.  Maybe then Dave will believe....;)
This one is very high in my list as well, the more data the better!

Oh yes.... this is one MYTH that NEEDS to be totally BUSTED!!  ;)

I'll believe the truth when I taste it for myself... whatever the truth really is.  I have been wrong before, it wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last!  I'm keeping an open mind, but healthily skeptical.
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: FWH
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2015, 02:27:03 pm »

Quote from: dmtaylor on May 08, 2015, 02:26:15 pm
Quote from: brulosopher on May 08, 2015, 02:18:27 pm

Quote from: denny on May 07, 2015, 10:15:55 am
FWIW, in the fall/winter I will be recreating my FWH experiment with much tighter controls than the last time I did it.  Maybe then Dave will believe....;)
This one is very high in my list as well, the more data the better!

Oh yes.... this is one MYTH that NEEDS to be totally BUSTED!!  ;)

I'll believe the truth when I taste it for myself... whatever the truth really is.  I have been wrong before, it wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last!  I'm keeping an open mind, but healthily skeptical.
Hey now ;)
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Offline 69franx

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Re: FWH
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2015, 02:28:43 pm »
Set the parameters and I'll get in Denny.  I'll play around with it
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Re: FWH
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2015, 03:05:32 pm »
Quote from: rjharper on May 08, 2015, 02:16:48 pm
So I could have sworn somewhere that FHW bitterness is more approximate to a 20 min addition, so that's how I've always calculated the IBUs. Apparently I should be setting it for the full 60/90 mins. I guess my recent beers have been more bitter then I planned, but I've no had any complaints!
I think I posted the link to a presentation from last year's NHC, but lab analysis showed FWH producing about 10% more IBUs when compared to the same hop amount added at the start of the boil.  The real question for the xbeeriment would be whether the difference is detectable on the palate.  In other words, is there a detectable difference in the _quality_ of the bitterness.  Is the 'smoothness' different despite the slightly higher IBUs?  etc.
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Offline JT

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Re: FWH
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2015, 04:20:01 pm »
If we can measure actual IBUs in some of the experiments that could be helpful for users of Lactobacillus. 
I'm betting the taste threshold is too close to call.  But if there's a way to measure foam production, let's include it please!  My experience is that FWH beers help prevent boilovers. 
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: FWH
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2015, 05:29:48 pm »
From what I can tell the 20 min rule is far more than fact, its dogma. What is a proven fact is that I thing FWH is smoother by about 10%.
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Offline denny

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Re: FWH
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2015, 10:50:14 am »
Quote from: rjharper on May 08, 2015, 02:16:48 pm
So I could have sworn somewhere that FHW bitterness is more approximate to a 20 min addition, so that's how I've always calculated the IBUs. Apparently I should be setting it for the full 60/90 mins. I guess my recent beers have been more bitter then I planned, but I've no had any complaints!

I have always felt that even though a FWH addition measures about 10% more IBUs, it tastes to me like a 20 min. addition, so that's how I calculate it.  But it is by no means a settled thing so do what seems right to you.
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Offline denny

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Re: FWH
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2015, 10:51:43 am »
Quote from: 69franx on May 08, 2015, 02:28:43 pm
Set the parameters and I'll get in Denny.  I'll play around with it

I'm doing a series of articles for BYO starting in the fall.  I'll revisit at least of my old experiments with more stringent controls.  I'll be asking for help from everyione once I publish the parameters.  Stay tuned...
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Offline denny

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Re: FWH
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2015, 10:52:53 am »
Quote from: toby on May 08, 2015, 03:05:32 pm
Quote from: rjharper on May 08, 2015, 02:16:48 pm
So I could have sworn somewhere that FHW bitterness is more approximate to a 20 min addition, so that's how I've always calculated the IBUs. Apparently I should be setting it for the full 60/90 mins. I guess my recent beers have been more bitter then I planned, but I've no had any complaints!
I think I posted the link to a presentation from last year's NHC, but lab analysis showed FWH producing about 10% more IBUs when compared to the same hop amount added at the start of the boil.  The real question for the xbeeriment would be whether the difference is detectable on the palate.  In other words, is there a detectable difference in the _quality_ of the bitterness.  Is the 'smoothness' different despite the slightly higher IBUs?  etc.

I think maybe that's my experiment from a number of years ago.  Starting on pg. 29, see if this looks familiar...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
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Re: FWH
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2015, 11:39:12 am »
Quote from: denny on May 09, 2015, 10:52:53 am
I think maybe that's my experiment from a number of years ago.  Starting on pg. 29, see if this looks familiar...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
Similar results, but the one I'm referring to was David Curtis last year including mash hop numbers also.  He did thank you on one of the slides, so I'm assuming you were on the taste panel.
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/Putting%20Some%20Numbers%20on%20First%20Wort%20and%20Mash%20Hop%20additions.pdf
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