Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Conan vs Chico Experiment  (Read 4644 times)

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2015, 10:03:08 am »
Hmm, interesting stuff! I'll dive into that post when I have some time - I had always read this was a good practice.

I bet that you read that information on a very large home brewing forum.  That site is chock-full of bad information, and anyone who dares to challenge the status quo is met with extreme resistance.

The common justification given for rinsing yeast with boiled water is page 168 of the book "Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation."  However, it is clear that those who as using it as a justification for what is a marginal practice at best have never actually read the book because that's not what the authors say.  The process outlined on page 168 is used to answer the question "How does one select the best yeast when harvesting the entire contents of a fermentor?"  The authors also mention in passing that it "may" be beneficial for commercial breweries to use the technique to separate yeast from green beer when harvesting yeast from high gravity beers. However, anyone who has studied brewing science or has been brewing for a number of years knows that repitching yeast cropped from high gravity batches is not a good practice.


Quote
What's your process for harvesting yeast?

1.) Leave about one U.S. quart to about one liter of green beer behind while racking
2.) Use the remaining green beer to swirl the solids back into suspension
3.) Wait a few minutes for the heaviest fraction to settle (this fraction will be composed of mostly break, organic matter, and dead yeast cells)
4.) carefully decant the cleanest 350 to 500ml of thin slurry from the fermentation vessel (I crop the cleanest 350ml)

The process outlined above accomplishes the same task as the process outlined on page 168 while keeping the force field that the culture built for itself intact.  While this force field is toxic to the culture, it is even more toxic to wild microflora.  Storing yeast under green beer instead of boiled water has the added effect of making cellular glycogen stores last longer.  The crops shown below were harvested using this method.



With that said, believe it or not, one can use the scoop and pitch method if one is not picky about break and other organic material carry over.  Many brewers use the scoop and pitch method.

In the end, what matters the most is not giving invaders an opportunity to infect one's crop; therefore, a brewer should limit the amount of handling that needs to be performed between cropping and repitching because every handling event represents an infection opportunity.  Removing the force field that the culture built for itself just compounds the problem.

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 10:03:59 am »
No only are there potential downsides, there are no benefits, either!  Try just saving and reusing the slurry and you'll see what I mean.

+1000

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
  • Philadelphia, PA
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 10:55:19 am »
Appreciate all the feedback - once I have 350-500ml of slurry in my flask should I just pitch the whole thing into a new brew or do you do any further separation/starters?

Offline erockrph

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7793
  • Chepachet, RI
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2015, 11:03:32 am »
Appreciate all the feedback - once I have 350-500ml of slurry in my flask should I just pitch the whole thing into a new brew or do you do any further separation/starters?

If it's fresh you can pitch from this slurry as-is. Otherwise, you're better off making a starter.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2015, 12:12:47 pm »
If you collect thin slurry per the process outlined above, you should end up with between 150ml and 200ml of thick slurry after the solids have settled.  A good rule of thumb to use is that 1ml of thick slurry contains approximately 1.2 billion cells; therefore, one can expect to have between 180 and 240 billion yeast cells in a 350ml thin slurry crop.

You should decant and discard the supernatant (the clear liquid that lies above the solids) before pitching the thick slurry.  You should get into the habit of wiping any surface over which yeast will be poured with a cotton ball that has been saturated with 70 - 90% alcohol before pouring.  Regular isopropyl alcohol will work; however, if you want to use clear spirits, then you need to pick a product that is at least 140 proof (proof = 2 x alcohol by volume percentage). 

Wiping with alcohol is a safeguard against infection.  Wild microflora does not crawl into a fermentation or starter vessel.  It rides through the air on house dust.  Wiping before pouring ensures that the lip over which the yeast will be poured is dust free.  If ones does not wipe, one runs the risk of dragging dustborne microflora into the fermentation (the threat increases with length of storage).  This step is the brewing equivalent the alcohol prep that a nurse or doctor does before giving one an injection.  The alcohol prep helps to prevent the needle from dragging microflora that is on one's skin into the injection site.

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
  • Philadelphia, PA
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2015, 06:56:51 pm »
If you collect thin slurry per the process outlined above, you should end up with between 150ml and 200ml of thick slurry after the solids have settled.  A good rule of thumb to use is that 1ml of thick slurry contains approximately 1.2 billion cells; therefore, one can expect to have between 180 and 240 billion yeast cells in a 350ml thin slurry crop.

You should decant and discard the supernatant (the clear liquid that lies above the solids) before pitching the thick slurry.  You should get into the habit of wiping any surface over which yeast will be poured with a cotton ball that has been saturated with 70 - 90% alcohol before pouring.  Regular isopropyl alcohol will work; however, if you want to use clear spirits, then you need to pick a product that is at least 140 proof (proof = 2 x alcohol by volume percentage). 

Wiping with alcohol is a safeguard against infection.  Wild microflora does not crawl into a fermentation or starter vessel.  It rides through the air on house dust.  Wiping before pouring ensures that the lip over which the yeast will be poured is dust free.  If ones does not wipe, one runs the risk of dragging dustborne microflora into the fermentation (the threat increases with length of storage).  This step is the brewing equivalent the alcohol prep that a nurse or doctor does before giving one an injection.  The alcohol prep helps to prevent the needle from dragging microflora that is on one's skin into the injection site.


Seems straightforward enough - leave a bit of beer, swirl, decant 350ml, refrigerate until brewday, pour off the top and pitch. Appreciate all the helpful feedback.

Offline pete b

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4150
  • Barre, Ma
Re: Conan vs Chico Experiment
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2015, 05:18:26 am »
No only are there potential downsides, there are no benefits, either!  Try just saving and reusing the slurry and you'll see what I mean.

+1000
When Mark's scientific approach and Denny's pragmatism based on personal experience agree I'm pretty much sold. Its also what I have been doing successfully for the past year.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.