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Author Topic: Making it smooth  (Read 3653 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2015, 12:53:26 pm »
Is Guinness REALLY partially soured?  Anybody got documentation of this?

when i took the tour, they did confirm two things- they use a "content of lactic acid" in the mash that is mashed separate from the roasted malts, then all wort is blended back together.

Thanks, Ken
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Offline denny

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 12:54:39 pm »
I had always heard as well that it was soured with soured guiness as well... obviously with nothing to back it up.

AFAIK, that's an urban myth.  Although possibly it was done in the past.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 01:04:38 pm »
I had always heard as well that it was soured with soured guiness as well... obviously with nothing to back it up.

AFAIK, that's an urban myth.  Although possibly it was done in the past.

yeah that's the one about their "old oak mash tuns" used back in the day that are said to be still used today and contained brett.....not likely or practical considering the amount of guinness pumped out these days.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2015, 01:11:06 pm »
I had always heard as well that it was soured with soured guiness as well... obviously with nothing to back it up.

AFAIK, that's an urban myth.  Although possibly it was done in the past.
It's still being done... By home brewers in my area unfortunately!

I had a local homebrewed Dry Stout that was lactic and Band-Aids. UGH! Upon asking, she said it was because her temperature control broke. Since that can't be the cause of lactic/phenols I probed further and then quickly wished I hadn't. Turns out she leaves out two pints of Guinness "until is sours, because that's how Guinness does it" and then dumps that in at flame out.  o_O
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2015, 01:14:13 pm »
Guinness creates their Guinness Flavor Extract (GFE) that is apparently just roast barley steeped in their very low alkalinity water. That should produce a liquor that has a pH nearing 4.5. That's low for a typical wort, but not 'sour'. I do not know if they actually sour the GFE. They combine that GFE with the regular wort composed of raw and malted pale barleys. That combination of substantial roast content, low pH, and regular wort help produce that sharp, roast flavor. That flavor and its moderation by the huge body imparted by the raw barley beta-glucans and raw barley flavor are what create that smooth Guinness flavor, IMHO.

I feel that you can get reasonably close to the Guinness dry stout result by adding the roast barley as a late mashing addition. However, as many pro-brewers and multi-Ninkasi winner Gordon Strong can attest, having the ability to Blend the beer components, gives you much more opportunity to fine tune the final product to taste and uniformity. I think that is why Guinness uses the GFE. Another reason is that their other breweries around the world may not have had access to low alkalinity brewing water and they could easily export the GFE to the other breweries for blending on site.

Guinness dry stout brewing is an interesting study, but I have to admit that I prefer other stouts and porters with smoother roast character.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2015, 01:14:33 pm »
Turns out she leaves out two pints of Guinness "until is sours, because that's how Guinness does it" and then dumps that in at flame out.  o_O

Ugh.    :(
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2015, 01:15:09 pm »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2015, 01:17:28 pm »
Turns out she leaves out two pints of Guinness "until is sours, because that's how Guinness does it" and then dumps that in at flame out.  o_O

Ugh.    :(

yeah that sounds hideous  :-[
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2015, 04:11:52 pm »
I had always heard as well that it was soured with soured guiness as well... obviously with nothing to back it up.

AFAIK, that's an urban myth.  Although possibly it was done in the past.
It's still being done... By home brewers in my area unfortunately!

I had a local homebrewed Dry Stout that was lactic and Band-Aids. UGH! Upon asking, she said it was because her temperature control broke. Since that can't be the cause of lactic/phenols I probed further and then quickly wished I hadn't. Turns out she leaves out two pints of Guinness "until is sours, because that's how Guinness does it" and then dumps that in at flame out.  o_O

Nice!  And I will bet they think its delicious!  "Here, try my Guinness clone...."

Offline Hooper

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 10:39:13 am »
I'm drinking a Guinness clone (1 week in the keg). I did an overnight one pound sour mash, which I added with my roasted barley to the mash at mash out. I haven't taste tested against a Guinness yet, but no band aid tastes to report. It is really good...IMO of course...
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2015, 12:57:26 pm »
I have tasted some decent dry stouts and some have a slight sour flavor, but many do not.  I made one non-soured, but with the Gordon Strong recommended late mash addition dark malts and adjusted the mash strike water for leaving them out per Brunwater.  I was favorably impressed with the result and sent it to Toby for one of the swap beers. (See the beer swap thread).  He said it was pretty good and that comports with those who have tried it at my garage.  Some of that Guiness mystique may be nitrogen based effects, I believe.  To me Guiness is a bit more watery than many dry stouts that are homebrewer and mashed at a higher temperature.  That could just be my palate preference, of course.
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Offline Hooper

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2015, 01:40:27 pm »
OK...I'm home now...and darn...there may be a tad bit of band-aid there...it's a quality band-aid though...not a generic band-aid...
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2015, 05:15:42 pm »
OK...I'm home now...and darn...there may be a tad bit of band-aid there...it's a quality band-aid though...not a generic band-aid...

I like your honesty. 

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2015, 10:01:50 am »
I find it hard to believe Diaego is leaving Guinness up to an unpredictable process like sour mashing. Any lactic acid in the beer is likely dosed with straight lactic acid in the kettle or after fermentation.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Making it smooth
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2015, 11:38:15 am »
I have not found Guiness to have any sourness at all. Its dry, its thin, its roasty, but not sour. Has anyone stuck a pH meter in one?