Author Topic: Black IPA?  (Read 10071 times)

Offline mnstorm99

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 11:53:13 AM »
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.
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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2010, 11:59:39 AM »
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

If you are drinking an IPA at night and the power goes out, does it become a Black IPA? :)

I wonder how many Black IPA's are going to be entered into the Longshot competition this year under category 23?
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Offline babalu87

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 12:02:57 PM »
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

If you are drinking an IPA at night and the power goes out, does it become a Black IPA? :)

I wonder how many Black IPA's are going to be entered into the Longshot competition this year under category 23?

One for sure  ;D
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Offline blatz

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2010, 12:03:39 PM »
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

FWIW, the two that I have had (Stone Sublimely Self Righteous and Southern Tier's __?___ ) aren't simply 'colored' IPAs.  They do have a subtle hint in flavor and aroma of some roasted malts.  

I could definitely tell a difference if blind folded between Stone SSR and the same beer brewed with only the roasted malts replaced with 2-row.

I don't give a damn about the style either, for that matter - both those beers are tasty, so i buy them, and maybe I'll just have to brew Jeff's recipe one of these days...
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Online bluesman

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2010, 12:12:52 PM »
I think it would be difficult to make a Black IPA without at least a hint of roast if one was using a roasted , chocolate and/or black malt.
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Offline pyrite

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 12:20:54 PM »
Sorry in advance for intruding on this thread and asking a side question....I recently made a hoppy beer and the color is murky brown (ugh), the taste is fantastic. I usually don't worry about esthetics but I undershot my color malts... I would like to turn this beer black; it is aging in a tank on oak cubes.  Is it possible to steep Carafa Special II on the stove in a pot, extract the jet black color, boil it and add it to the fermenter in hopes of turning this beer jet black?

You guys have all great ideas about Black IPAs, I love reading through this stuff...
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Offline denny

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 12:35:02 PM »
Sorry in advance for intruding on this thread and asking a side question....I recently made a hoppy beer and the color is murky brown (ugh), the taste is fantastic. I usually don't worry about esthetics but I undershot my color malts... I would like to turn this beer black; it is aging in a tank on oak cubes.  Is it possible to steep Carafa Special II on the stove in a pot, extract the jet black color, boil it and add it to the fermenter in hopes of turning this beer jet black?

You guys have all great ideas about Black IPAs, I love reading through this stuff...


An easier way would be to use Sinamar.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 01:04:15 PM »
And yes, if you can't find sinamar.. you can take dehusked Carafa and cold steep it to produce a colorant. Boil it before you add it to your finished beer.
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Offline pyrite

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 01:12:49 PM »
Prefect, okay cool thanks denny and dbeechum. I'm going to see if MoreBeer carries this product, if I can't find it i'll use the cold steeping method, either way both methods look very effective.  I'll be on my way off this thread now
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 01:25:00 PM »
Prefect, okay cool thanks denny and dbeechum. I'm going to see if MoreBeer carries this product, if I can't find it i'll use the cold steeping method, either way both methods look very effective.  I'll be on my way off this thread now

Interesting.  This thread got me curious and, while I definitely remember Northern Brewer carrying Sinamar, it looks like nobody does any longer.  Wonder what happened?
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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2010, 08:53:32 AM »
Currently having an IPA and Schwarzbier on tap I'm finding the combination of 2/3 IPA & 1/3 Schwarzbier is the shcitz!!! The Carafa II in the Schwarzbier is what's giving it a very nice, smooth roasted flavor.  If/when I brew a Black IPA, that's the route I'm taking; a combination of the two recipies.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2010, 11:01:52 AM »
I once blended an IPA with a BDS.  Just incredible!  Both beers were awesome on their own; but together... stunning!

Offline pyrite

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2010, 03:22:01 PM »
Here's some info on cold steeping...

From George Fix on Cold Steeping

Question to Dr. Fix:

On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

    * (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
    * (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
    * (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.




OKAY...so you guys sold me on the cold steeping method...I am just thinking out loud though, how is cold steeping different from a sour mash.  More specifically if I am following the post DENNY posted from Dr. Fix, how is the cold steeping extraction of black colorant from the Carafa Special II malt not supposed to contain lacto when I leave it soaking for 16hrs..  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:01:37 PM by pyrite »
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2010, 10:11:32 PM »
The big difference is heat in two ways:

1) Naturally, roasted malts will have less lacto on them due to the roasting process. No comment on post roasting inoculation though

2) Steeping cold will deter lacto. Lacto likes warmth, e.g. dead bodies, leftover mashes.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Black IPA?
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2010, 05:25:26 AM »
I have been cold steeping since Mary Ann Gruber had made the technique public years ago.  It works, in that the harsh bitter burnt flavors are not in the finished beer.  My wife does not like the "ashtray" flavor that you get in some dark beers, and this avoids that.

I use water that has the chlorine removed (any technique will do), and steep overnight.  You can add the liquid to the mash, the liquid and grains to the mash, or strain the liquid and add to the boil.  I add it all to the mash 5 to 10 minutes before mashout. 

Cold steeping is less efficient, so you might want 1.5 times to 2 times as much grain.

Never had any lacto produced  by doing this.  Might check the pH of the cold steep liquid next time, as it might be low due to the dark grain.

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