Author Topic: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!  (Read 707 times)

Offline brulosopher

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In this 2nd xBmt focused on water chemistry, Malcolm compared 2 Dry Stouts made from the same recipe with different levels of minerals in the mash. Would a panel of tasters be capable of distinguishing between them? Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2015/05/18/water-chemistry-pt-2-messing-with-minerals-exbeeriment-results/

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 01:26:32 PM »
John Palmer did a presentation some years back. He had examples of a pale ale brewed with a pale ale profile and a stout profile. He had a stout brewed with a stout profile and a pale ale profile. You could tell the difference easily. Too lazy to look it up, 2007 to 2009 time frame.
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 01:35:21 PM »
John Palmer did a presentation some years back. He had examples of a pale ale brewed with a pale ale profile and a stout profile. He had a stout brewed with a stout profile and a pale ale profile. You could tell the difference easily. Too lazy to look it up, 2007 to 2009 time frame.

I believe you're referring to the presentation linked below, Malcolm mentioned it in the article:

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2007/JPPresentation.pdf

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 01:36:28 PM »
I didn't read the article. Said I was too lazy this morning, so I proved it.

Edit - you also have my subjective impression that the beers were different. The correct water for the beef had the preferred taste.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:38:07 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 02:03:44 PM »
I didn't read the article. Said I was too lazy this morning, so I proved it.

Edit - you also have my subjective impression that the beers were different. The correct water for the beef had the preferred taste.

Haha! Well, the cliff notes version:

A statistically significant portion of tasters were able to distinguish between the different beers :)

Offline stpug

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 03:51:12 PM »
Fun experiment! I'm surprised the differences were so noticeable, on the other hand, it's the assumption I brew with so I'm glad to see some testing results confirming it's usefulness. I guess I'll keep on truckin' :D

PS: I really do like the 3D pie chart ;) (clear as day)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 03:57:41 PM »
I'm not surprised that the differences were noticeable. I am surprised that the 'hoppy' profile was as well received as it was. I've always found too much sulfate to give a dark beer a harsh, near acrid character. I read that you fined the kegs and that the delta diminished afterward. Regardless, nice work again !
Jon H.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 04:03:40 PM »
Fun experiment! I'm surprised the differences were so noticeable, on the other hand, it's the assumption I brew with so I'm glad to see some testing results confirming it's usefulness. I guess I'll keep on truckin' :D

PS: I really do like the 3D pie chart ;) (clear as day)

Haha, I'll have to consider using pie charts more often, I suppose.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 04:43:26 PM »
Very neat. I'm really enjoying this latest set of xBmts. Just the right amount of technical but practical enough to put into practice straight away.

Friendly edit: about 3/4 of the way down, he writes "BJPC" when I'm sure he meant BJCP.  ;)
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 04:51:29 PM »
Very neat. I'm really enjoying this latest set of xBmts. Just the right amount of technical but practical enough to put into practice straight away.

Friendly edit: about 3/4 of the way down, he writes "BJPC" when I'm sure he meant BJCP.  ;)

Thanks, Amanda! Error has been fixed :)

Offline beersk

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 10:25:50 PM »
I'm not surprised that the differences were noticeable. I am surprised that the 'hoppy' profile was as well received as it was. I've always found too much sulfate to give a dark beer a harsh, near acrid character. I read that you fined the kegs and that the delta diminished afterward. Regardless, nice work again !
So what is this "delta" you speak of?

Nice job once again, Marshall.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 10:33:24 PM »
I'm not surprised that the differences were noticeable. I am surprised that the 'hoppy' profile was as well received as it was. I've always found too much sulfate to give a dark beer a harsh, near acrid character. I read that you fined the kegs and that the delta diminished afterward. Regardless, nice work again !
So what is this "delta" you speak of?

Nice job once again, Marshall.

He said in the experiment that, once he fined the kegs with gelatin and gave them cold conditioning, the difference (delta) between the two beers seemed not as drastic.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 12:48:00 AM »
I didn't read the article. Said I was too lazy this morning, so I proved it.

Edit - you also have my subjective impression that the beers were different. The correct water for the beef had the preferred taste.

Haha! Well, the cliff notes version:

A statistically significant portion of tasters were able to distinguish between the different beers :)

So did I in the Palmer presentation.

The APA with the correct water chemistry tasted, well, like an APA. With the Stout water chemistry it tasted chalky, muddy if you will. The stout with the right chemistry tasted rather neutral, finished nice without off flavors. The one with the pale ale profile was sharp to the taste ant not stout like.

I hope that gives more to my "cliff notes" version. It was 2007, and it sent me off a path to look into water chemistry before many others.
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 12:49:38 AM »

I'm not surprised that the differences were noticeable. I am surprised that the 'hoppy' profile was as well received as it was. I've always found too much sulfate to give a dark beer a harsh, near acrid character. I read that you fined the kegs and that the delta diminished afterward. Regardless, nice work again !
So what is this "delta" you speak of?

Nice job once again, Marshall.
Malcolm is a military guy, he uses funny words.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Water Chemistry - Pt. 2: Messing With Minerals | xBmt Results!
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 01:10:10 AM »
I have found this to be true since going to whole house RO with a TDS meter and Brunwater software.  I like to make the water fit the beer style these days.  Maybe it's all in my head, but then it's in the heads of a whole lot of others, too!
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