Author Topic: Busch Copper Lager  (Read 2497 times)

Online chumley

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Busch Copper Lager
« on: May 18, 2015, 03:09:17 PM »
America's newest craft brewer is....BUSCH!!!



I bought a sixer of it for $4.50 at the gas station yesterday.  I was pleasantly surprised.  Nice light malty flavor with smooth graininess, none of that awful lemony taste of regular Busch/Busch Light.  Reminded me of Leinenkugel Oktoberfest.

Offline curtism1234

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 03:30:13 PM »
I'd honestly rather have regular Busch - especially the rare Busch on tap. I'll drink that over any craft.

The Copper Lager still tasted of adjuncts to me and it's price around here is pretty much in line with Micholeb.

Then again I got one in a sketchy bar. Hard telling how old it was or how it was stored.

Online chumley

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 02:57:05 PM »
I drank another one last night.  I couldn't taste any adjuncts, although it probably has rice in it given the dryness.  My CAP and regular Busch has more corn flavor than the Busch copper lager.

Offline The Professor

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2015, 01:11:58 AM »
I haven't seen this one on the East Coast yet...I hope it makes an appearance.  Most of the reviews I've heard about it have expressed surprise at just how good it actually is.  If the quality is that good, there really should be no surprise about that...the real surprises will be
1) if AB-InBev actually puts some muscle behind it, and
2) if uber snobs actually can be objective enough about it to judge it fairly.

What I think is more likely to happen is that AB-I will drop it, like they did Budweiser American Ale (which was a perfectly respectable ale, especially the draft version).

Watching where the beer industry goes in the next 5-10 years will be interesting indeed.   
The sleeping giants (and their corporate tastebuds) are beginning to awaken.  And I still maintain that when the bigs start turning out more beers of true distinction, it will up everyone's game.
AL
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 09:13:48 AM »
I haven't seen this one on the East Coast yet...I hope it makes an appearance.  Most of the reviews I've heard about it have expressed surprise at just how good it actually is.  If the quality is that good, there really should be no surprise about that...the real surprises will be
1) if AB-InBev actually puts some muscle behind it, and
2) if uber snobs actually can be objective enough about it to judge it fairly.

What I think is more likely to happen is that AB-I will drop it, like they did Budweiser American Ale (which was a perfectly respectable ale, especially the draft version).

Watching where the beer industry goes in the next 5-10 years will be interesting indeed.   
The sleeping giants (and their corporate tastebuds) are beginning to awaken.  And I still maintain that when the bigs start turning out more beers of true distinction, it will up everyone's game.

The BMC manufacturers can do a Lot to turn around their slipping numbers but local craft will still continue to grow. It's like guerrilla warfare. Local breweries are able to do a lot more a lot faster than the macros. People enjoy going to the breweries' tasting rooms and the small breweries are doing a lot to use that experience to market their beers. Don't get me wrong, I think there will be a bursting point here soon, but I do not think BMC will do much to recover the lost market share. They will be lucky if they can stabilize the decline. Remember, most kids under 30 years old have never tasted a Budweiser and that's not likely to suddenly change.

Offline curtism1234

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 02:02:23 PM »
I haven't seen this one on the East Coast yet...I hope it makes an appearance.  Most of the reviews I've heard about it have expressed surprise at just how good it actually is.  If the quality is that good, there really should be no surprise about that...the real surprises will be
1) if AB-InBev actually puts some muscle behind it, and
2) if uber snobs actually can be objective enough about it to judge it fairly.

What I think is more likely to happen is that AB-I will drop it, like they did Budweiser American Ale (which was a perfectly respectable ale, especially the draft version).

Watching where the beer industry goes in the next 5-10 years will be interesting indeed.   
The sleeping giants (and their corporate tastebuds) are beginning to awaken.  And I still maintain that when the bigs start turning out more beers of true distinction, it will up everyone's game.

There is a small zoo-like attraction in St. Louis owned by the Busch family called Grant's Farm. They have a beer garden there where you can get 2 free beers. Basically you have Bud, Bud Light, Stella, and maybe Shocktop. Last year they had a "Grant's Farm 60th Anniversary American Red" brewed for them and it was pretty darn good  8) I wish they make that again



As to the future of craft beer in 10-15 years, I think a lot is going to change. IMO there's going to be a lot of acquisitions (ie Duval / Boulevard) and possibly co-ops (although they sort of exist already by means of distributors). With the hipster movement not going away, you're going to be finding a lot more beer companies becoming the corner pub of yore because having 100% of a neighborhood is more profitable than having .01% of a region. Maybe some of the larger ones rent a canning machine everyonce in a while and sell locally.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 02:05:05 PM by curtism1234 »

Offline The Professor

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 02:41:08 PM »
I haven't seen this one on the East Coast yet...I hope it makes an appearance.  Most of the reviews I've heard about it have expressed surprise at just how good it actually is.  If the quality is that good, there really should be no surprise about that...the real surprises will be
1) if AB-InBev actually puts some muscle behind it, and
2) if uber snobs actually can be objective enough about it to judge it fairly.

What I think is more likely to happen is that AB-I will drop it, like they did Budweiser American Ale (which was a perfectly respectable ale, especially the draft version).

Watching where the beer industry goes in the next 5-10 years will be interesting indeed.   
The sleeping giants (and their corporate tastebuds) are beginning to awaken.  And I still maintain that when the bigs start turning out more beers of true distinction, it will up everyone's game.


The BMC manufacturers can do a Lot to turn around their slipping numbers but local craft will still continue to grow. It's like guerrilla warfare. Local breweries are able to do a lot more a lot faster than the macros. People enjoy going to the breweries' tasting rooms and the small breweries are doing a lot to use that experience to market their beers. Don't get me wrong, I think there will be a bursting point here soon, but I do not think BMC will do much to recover the lost market share. They will be lucky if they can stabilize the decline. Remember, most kids under 30 years old have never tasted a Budweiser and that's not likely to suddenly change.

I pretty much agree with you Keith.  BMC has a tough fight ahead of it.  They can probably make any type of beer they want to make and probably do it better... but in those huge corporations (as we all know) the bean counters always rule and that fact is a big advantage for the smaller brewers.

I've been seriously interested in and observing the brewing industry for around 45 years and the change has been phenomenal. The way I see it right now, though,  is that the smaller brewers are not really in competition with BMC at all.  So many smaller brewers have set up shop and in many cases, going after something more than local distribution that they are more in competition amongst themselves as opposed to competing with the BMCs.   Both have their devoted audiences, but the advantage held by the little guys lies in the fact that while many drinkers make the switch from BMC to the usually more flavorful 'craft' beer, I think it safe to say that in general the 'craft' drinkers rarely make the switch to BMC...at least considering that BMC's main focus for the most part making these days (aside from a few notable and excellent exceptions) is still primarily bland malt pop .   
So while I do agree that recovering lost market share is really unlikely, it they are smart they will be able to maintain market share by making the products they are more than capable of making and competing on price.
But of course, the bean counters will still be there looking to keep production costs down.
It's going to be fascinating to watch.
AL
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 10:59:17 AM »
FWIW 5 years ago I would agree with the idea that BMC could "do it better" part with their equipment, labs and expertise but I'm not sure this is the case now and - if it is - that is also quickly slipping away. The equipment being made for small breweries now is incredible and the knowledge and education is completely accessible. We have Siebel grads coming out the whazoo and more and more even everyday homebrewers are becoming familiar with the science of brewing on a very intricate level. There are many breweries out there that are just an RO system and a lab away from making beer every bit as good as BMC and, increasingly, these brewers are making the jump. After QC is taken care of, then it all comes down to recipe design and marketing and, here again, with enough creativity and money the small breweries are able to "do it" as good as BMC. There won't be any superbowl ads but there are plenty of other ways to creatively market yourself - and I feel that brewery tasting rooms are a great tool for that, as are local tap takeovers and excited sales people. Perhaps especially the latter, how many sales people are excited to work for BMC or have the direct phone number to the brewer to ask questions?

Also, 5 years ago I would have agreed that Craft and BMC are not competitors but I'm not sure that is the case now, either. We had a tap take over at a local restaurant last night, we have a 3 week push where we have table tents, signs, pint glass giveaways, and servers wearing Yellowhammer swag and becoming educated on YH beer.  Here's an opportunity for you to by a Bud light but, hey, I'll give this a shot. More and more Bud Light drinkers are giving craft a shot and even if they still drink a majority of BL, they will sometimes pick up a six pack of a local beer and even if that is only 1 out of 10 times that takes a sale away from BMC. And, as we all know, craft beer is a slippery slope. the more you drink it the harder it is to drink a Bud Light.

Being on the craft side of the industry and working with distributors who's main bread and butter is BMC, it is interesting to see the distro's more and more frequently looking to craft as a cash cow. The distro's are now fully behind supporting the craft beer market because even if they can make money off BMC they can make more money selling a premium product.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 11:01:20 AM by majorvices »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 12:03:36 PM »
FWIW 5 years ago I would agree with the idea that BMC could "do it better" part with their equipment, labs and expertise but I'm not sure this is the case now and - if it is - that is also quickly slipping away. The equipment being made for small breweries now is incredible and the knowledge and education is completely accessible. We have Siebel grads coming out the whazoo and more and more even everyday homebrewers are becoming familiar with the science of brewing on a very intricate level. There are many breweries out there that are just an RO system and a lab away from making beer every bit as good as BMC and, increasingly, these brewers are making the jump. After QC is taken care of, then it all comes down to recipe design and marketing and, here again, with enough creativity and money the small breweries are able to "do it" as good as BMC. There won't be any superbowl ads but there are plenty of other ways to creatively market yourself - and I feel that brewery tasting rooms are a great tool for that, as are local tap takeovers and excited sales people. Perhaps especially the latter, how many sales people are excited to work for BMC or have the direct phone number to the brewer to ask questions?

Also, 5 years ago I would have agreed that Craft and BMC are not competitors but I'm not sure that is the case now, either. We had a tap take over at a local restaurant last night, we have a 3 week push where we have table tents, signs, pint glass giveaways, and servers wearing Yellowhammer swag and becoming educated on YH beer.  Here's an opportunity for you to by a Bud light but, hey, I'll give this a shot. More and more Bud Light drinkers are giving craft a shot and even if they still drink a majority of BL, they will sometimes pick up a six pack of a local beer and even if that is only 1 out of 10 times that takes a sale away from BMC. And, as we all know, craft beer is a slippery slope. the more you drink it the harder it is to drink a Bud Light.

Being on the craft side of the industry and working with distributors who's main bread and butter is BMC, it is interesting to see the distro's more and more frequently looking to craft as a cash cow. The distro's are now fully behind supporting the craft beer market because even if they can make money off BMC they can make more money selling a premium product.

That's pretty good insight, Keith. I feel the same way, but it's interesting to hear from someone on the inside who deals with distributors.
Jon H.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 12:29:12 PM »

And, as we all know, craft beer is a slippery slope. the more you drink it the harder it is to drink a Bud Light.
I believe this, but, is it true?

When I look around the world I see a whole bunch of light and adjunct lagers everywhere, local brands not BMC.
Prohibition killed variety in the U.S., but, what caused brewers from other countries to brew light lagers? Was that shift due to massive marketing that duped the consumer, a push to save money by breweries, or consumer taste?

One former trend that may be on hiatus or may be gone is a beer drinker's tendency to always buy the same brand. If hipsters evolve to drinking just one beer, even if it's a craft style, BMC will be able to buy a few brands and maintain market share. I think that is what BMC is currently counting on. This is why they are buying a few craft brewers. They will market those in hopes of getting the 30-something's to evolve toward one brand, their brand.

PS. I prefer local beer and variety. My above comments are just me playing the devil's advocate.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 01:02:26 PM »
Tommy, you bring up some good points. I'm looking at it from the prospective of a "damn yankee" watching my "redneck buddies" switch over from Bud and Coors Light to American Craft beer. There's certainly no denying that trends can suddenly change as well. But I highly doubt America will go back to drinking Bud and while I think the BMC manufacturers could (and can) produce competing "crafty" products I do not think they have the upper hand in quality and consistency like they once had.

Offline curtism1234

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 02:41:29 PM »
One former trend that may be on hiatus or may be gone is a beer drinker's tendency to always buy the same brand.

I agree. I have my favorite IPA's, stouts, lagers, etc and they are all pretty much different brands. Some brands are one trick ponies and offer 1 good beer in their catalog; other brands are very solid all the way across the board.

One very big problem I'm seeing is too much variety in the good liquor stores. I went to one of the best stores in the city yesterday and found 2 Deschutes beers. Come on, they are near the Top 5 & everything they brew is gold and there's 2 available???
Instead I see the shelves full of crap like Horny Goat and Free State that their reps can't even drink ::)

Variety has got out of control imo

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 03:14:59 PM »

One former trend that may be on hiatus or may be gone is a beer drinker's tendency to always buy the same brand.

I agree. I have my favorite IPA's, stouts, lagers, etc and they are all pretty much different brands. Some brands are one trick ponies and offer 1 good beer in their catalog; other brands are very solid all the way across the board.

One very big problem I'm seeing is too much variety in the good liquor stores. I went to one of the best stores in the city yesterday and found 2 Deschutes beers. Come on, they are near the Top 5 & everything they brew is gold and there's 2 available???
Instead I see the shelves full of crap like Horny Goat and Free State that their reps can't even drink ::)

Variety has got out of control imo
I am cheap and hate buying bad beer. I usually prefer to try new beers in bars or tap rooms. It irks me when I buy a 6 pack of bad beer.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 03:32:32 PM »
As Paul Gatza has stated to his BA members: The biggest challenge facing the craft industry is poor quality beers.

There are a lot of crap craft beers out there. Finding that diamond in the rough is great, but you sure have to down a lot of coal dust to get there.

As you will notice with many of the European beers that we hold dear, they only make a few beer styles or maybe one, but they focus on honing and refining that limited slate to high quality. We need more of that focus here in the craft beer industry too. 
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Re: Busch Copper Lager
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 03:52:30 PM »
As Paul Gatza has stated to his BA members: The biggest challenge facing the craft industry is poor quality beers.

There are a lot of crap craft beers out there. Finding that diamond in the rough is great, but you sure have to down a lot of coal dust to get there.

As you will notice with many of the European beers that we hold dear, they only make a few beer styles or maybe one, but they focus on honing and refining that limited slate to high quality. We need more of that focus here in the craft beer industry too.

Good point. I would say that 4/5 new breweries opening in my region are below average quality in my opinion.
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