[tomsawyer]

Dean I didn't add any hops to mine yet, its fermenting now.  I'm thinking I might just blend in some hopped beer later on if it tastes like it needs it.

[tankdeer]

You could also do what is traditional in a Berliner Weisse mash (which is not a sour mash BTW) and pull a single decoction and hop that. You only want like 5-10 ibus on most sour beers anyways

[tygo]

You only want like 5-10 ibus on most sour beers anyways

Is that regardless of gravity?

[tankdeer]

You only want like 5-10 ibus on most sour beers anyways

Is that regardless of gravity?

No, not really. But I'd say it's a fair assumption for anything between probably 1.030 and maybe 1.055 or even 1.060. Once you start getting bigger I'll push the IBUs up closer to 15 or maybe even 20. Two things to consider, first is that just in general sour and bitter are two flavors that kinda clash, and don't go well together, and second is that if lactobacillus is extremely hop sensitive, and will crap out on your if you've got too much hops.

[babalu87]

I dont know if I did a no no or not

Doughed in Friday AM to 120.
Put the mash tun in the attic.
Pulled it down and gave it a smell/taste
TASTES NICE...

Added boiling water to hit 149 and rested there for 90 minutes
Ran off and boiled

Two things
Hit my OG DEAD ON
Wort is REALLY MILKY stuff.

I've been reading that mashes are soured AFTER conversion............................?

[tankdeer]

I've been reading that mashes are soured AFTER conversion............................?

That is generally the way one would do it, because your mash pH was probably not in the ideal range. The milkiness would suggest a pretty significant starch presence in your wort. If you hadn't already planned on it, I'd pitch some brett to take care of that.

[babalu87]

I've been reading that mashes are soured AFTER conversion............................?

That is generally the way one would do it, because your mash pH was probably not in the ideal range. The milkiness would suggest a pretty significant starch presence in your wort. If you hadn't already planned on it, I'd pitch some brett to take care of that.

Dont want to wait for Brett
I want quick and sour ( I know that doesnt really compute but have heard it can be done)

[tankdeer]

I've been reading that mashes are soured AFTER conversion............................?

That is generally the way one would do it, because your mash pH was probably not in the ideal range. The milkiness would suggest a pretty significant starch presence in your wort. If you hadn't already planned on it, I'd pitch some brett to take care of that.

Dont want to wait for Brett
I want quick and sour ( I know that doesnt really compute but have heard it can be done)

You're right though. It CAN be done. Well, good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

[tygo]

You only want like 5-10 ibus on most sour beers anyways

Is that regardless of gravity?

No, not really. But I'd say it's a fair assumption for anything between probably 1.030 and maybe 1.055 or even 1.060. Once you start getting bigger I'll push the IBUs up closer to 15 or maybe even 20. Two things to consider, first is that just in general sour and bitter are two flavors that kinda clash, and don't go well together, and second is that if lactobacillus is extremely hop sensitive, and will crap out on your if you've got too much hops.

Good to know, thanks. I'll be using lacto and the gravity will be up in the 1.080+ range and I'm planning about 18 IBU's if I recall correctly so that should be about right.

[tankdeer]

18 should be ok, but I wouldn't push much past that. If this is a "true" sour beer (by which I mean a mixed fermentation and not a sour mash), then you may want to consider using some pediococcus as well. It has a much higher tolerance for iso alpha acids and produces a good amount of lactic acid

[dean]

I mashed at 149 for an hour then tried adding a gallon of boiling water to mash out to lock the activity.  I ended up adding 3 gallons of boiling water and still couldn't hit 170?!  Yes, that was after stirring, three separate times with a gallon each time.     167 to 168 was the best I could get.  So its still sitting in the MT, I pop the lid open and leave it open every so often for 10 minutes to half an hour.  I don't know what to expect but I'm pitching S-05 tomorrow or the next day once I've transferred to a carboy.  I haven't checked my gravity yet but I will when I pull a portion for boiling and hopping.  I know I'm not doing it the correct way but thats how its gonna roll.      Since there is no "real" boil the way I'm doing it, I'm wondering about DMS too.  I had plenty of bee's checking out the process yesterday... do those bugs count? 

The grain and mash smelled so good... I've got to make a regular beer now!   

[tankdeer]

Contrary to common sense, I've never had a DMS issue in my no-boil berliners.

[dean]

I'll probably end up with a dumper, I'm doing almost everything contrary to what I normally would do.  I was just out in the shed, I passed some ferns along the way and I thought... what the heck, so there is a fern steeping in the mash too now.   

[tankdeer]

Lol. What's a fern taste like anyways?

[dean]

Well, believe it or not, if you pick them early in the spring while they are in the "fiddle" stage and cook them as you would asparagus they taste quite similar.  I wanted to pick some this year but I couldn't remember which ones are the edible ones.  I was taught by an an old friend long ago beside the fact that its been at least fifteen years since I've eaten them.  I believe it is the branched type that are known to carry cancer causing agents whereas the straight leaf type are edible at that stage.  BUT, as I said its been so long now that I may have that backwards, which wouldn't surprise me because Sumac is another plant that there are two types... one is branched and the other is straight stick type of plant... the branched Sumac is edible while the straight Sumac is poisonous.

When I was a kid I tried smoking fern stems... very Sour.    Yeh.... tried cornsilk too... along with other plants.    Nothing beats a refreshing cup of corn squeez'ns out of a full silo though.    Honestly I just put it in there figuring there are probably some bacteria and yeast on the leaves of the fern though.  Although I haven't even drained the MT yet so I doubt its doing any good.... or bad?