Author Topic: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience  (Read 1230 times)

Offline medley55

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Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« on: May 24, 2015, 11:17:29 AM »
Brewed an all-grain Dogfish Head 60 minute clone on Friday, hit most of my numbers, missed OG by .04.

My issue is the first yeast I used, Wyeast 1187 Ringwood Ale.  I didn't notice the date of the package was December 2014 until I was too far along.  I aerated and pitched it anyway and waited 24 hours and nothing.  So I re-pitched with White labs English ale yeast, 24 hours later nothing.

Should I have re-aerated the wort?  Help!

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 11:39:33 AM »
patience. You pitched a vial or smackpack into 5 gallons? what was the gravity? how are you judging activity?
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Offline medley55

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 11:52:31 AM »
I was concerned the Wyeast was expired.  Pre-boil 1.050, OG 1.060.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 12:02:09 PM »
are you fermenting in a bucket or carboy? if a bucket have you popped the lid to see what's going on inside or are you judgeing by bubbles in the airlock?

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Offline medley55

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 12:04:08 PM »
I opened lid on bucket when I pitched the white labs, nothing. 

Another question, I forgot to add Irish moss in the boil.  Is there anything I can do now?

I appreciate your responses!

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 12:08:13 PM »
I bet you will see signs of yeast activity in the fermented by about 3:00 this afternoon.  Otherwise add even more yeast.  The activity would be visual though like little bubbles at the surface of the wort, as airlock activity is not reliable and might take another day.  So don't just go by the airlock.

Don't worry about the Irish moss at all.  Unnecessary.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 12:09:45 PM by dmtaylor »
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 12:51:38 PM »
Two words: "Yeast Starter". You should use one for any beer with an SG over 1.040 and especially if the yeast is expired. It will start fermenting eventually but you will make better beer if you pitch the proper amount if yeast every time, Check out the pitching calc at www.mrmalty.com for more info.

Offline medley55

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2015, 01:06:08 PM »
Ok, so now that I have pitched twice I should have enough.  Any thoughts what pitching to different but similar yeasts will do to the taste?

Offline majorvices

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 01:08:29 PM »
Depends on the yeast. What did you pitch?

Offline erockrph

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 02:39:56 PM »
Both WLP002 and Ringwood are highly flocculant strains. I would stongly suggest that you rouse the yeast 1-2 times a day after the first few days of strong fermentation, and raise the temp if possible. Ringwood has a tendency to produce lousy diacetyl-laden beer. If the yeast drops out before they've cleaned up the diacetyl, it might end up tasting like you dry hopped with Werther's Original and/or movie theater popcorn.

Having said that, Ringwood is fairly clean if you get the diacetyl under control. The WLP002 (Fullers) has a distinct ester profile, to me it's mainly stonefruit (like dried apricots). It's hard to tell which strain will end up taking the lead in a blend. If it's the Ringwood, then your 60-minute clone will likely come out as advertised. If the 002 stands out, then you'll get more of that ester thing going on. That's not necessarily a bad thing - I prefer Fullers to Ringwood for hoppy ales, but it might not exactly match the flavor profile you're shooting for in your 60-minute clone.

Either way, it should make a nice IPA as long as you take care of the fermentation.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 04:28:10 PM »
Both WLP002 and Ringwood are highly flocculant strains. I would stongly suggest that you rouse the yeast 1-2 times a day after the first few days of strong fermentation, and raise the temp if possible. Ringwood has a tendency to produce lousy diacetyl-laden beer. If the yeast drops out before they've cleaned up the diacetyl, it might end up tasting like you dry hopped with Werther's Original and/or movie theater popcorn.

Having said that, Ringwood is fairly clean if you get the diacetyl under control. The WLP002 (Fullers) has a distinct ester profile, to me it's mainly stonefruit (like dried apricots). It's hard to tell which strain will end up taking the lead in a blend. If it's the Ringwood, then your 60-minute clone will likely come out as advertised. If the 002 stands out, then you'll get more of that ester thing going on. That's not necessarily a bad thing - I prefer Fullers to Ringwood for hoppy ales, but it might not exactly match the flavor profile you're shooting for in your 60-minute clone.

Either way, it should make a nice IPA as long as you take care of the fermentation.

Life's too short to use Ringwood IMO. Not my favorite.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 05:02:32 PM »
Life's too short to use Ringwood IMO. Not my favorite.

Agreed.  I hate the stuff.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 05:02:36 PM »
Life's too short to use Ringwood IMO. Not my favorite.
Agreed, but if it's already been pitched then the deed is done. It is possible to make good beer with Ringwood (love me some Geary's stout), and DFH does supposedly use it for 60- and 90-minute, so I can see why it would be called for in a clone. But I'm totally with you - there are so many other great English yeast strains that don't produce guaranteed butterbombs. I have no need for Ringwood in my brewery.
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Offline medley55

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2015, 07:08:59 PM »
dmtaylor...  nice prediction, 2pm the bubbles started.

Lack of patience wins again.

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Re: Lack of fermentation or lack or patience
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 02:53:11 AM »
Both WLP002 and Ringwood are highly flocculant strains.

I have never used Wyeast 1187; however, if it is like White Labs WLP005, it's not the complete culture.  Ringwood is a mixed culture.  The White Labs culture is missing the top-cropping strain.   I had a real Ringwood culture in my bank back in the nineties.   I acquired that culture in 1994 as a hydrometer sample taken from a 25 bbl open fermentation vessel at the defunct Wild Goose Brewery in Cambridge, Maryland.  Jason Kennedy worked at Wild Goose before joining Dogfish Head.

Real Ringwood can be a thing of beauty or a cruel mistress. Being a Yorkshire mixed culture, Ringwood has high O2 requirements.  Rouse and aerate the fermentation on the second day, and one is golden.  Fail to rouse and aerate on the second day, and one risks making a butterscotch bomb.