Author Topic: harshness from keg hops  (Read 976 times)

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
harshness from keg hops
« on: June 03, 2015, 07:51:48 PM »
Wow...I am posting a lot today  ;)

I kegged and added 1 oz of citra in a muslin bag to an uncarbed keg. I have done this a few times with good success. This is an 18 IBU beer with only a Magnum bittering addition. I have a lot going on in this beer and balance is very important so I will be sampling it every day to make sure the flavors are right.

After ONE DAY the hop aroma and flavor is excruciatingly overpowering and super dank...literally a palate wrecker. It reminds me of a hoppy wheat beer with columbus hops that failed horribly a couple of years ago (I learned a lot from that beer). Anyway, is this likely due to hop matter that settled in the keg overnight and is being pulled out into the glass? It is purposely a cloudy beer and I don't see any specks floating around. I took a smaller, second sample and it seemed to be less powerful but still pretty much undrinkable...   

I am half tempted to pull the hops out but don't want to jump the gun. I have never noticed this in any of my keg hopped beers in the past granted those were APAs or IPAs and this is not. Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 07:58:01 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2015, 09:22:32 PM »
Wow...I am posting a lot today  ;)

I kegged and added 1 oz of citra in a muslin bag to an uncarbed keg. I have done this a few times with good success. This is an 18 IBU beer with only a Magnum bittering addition. I have a lot going on in this beer and balance is very important so I will be sampling it every day to make sure the flavors are right.

After ONE DAY the hop aroma and flavor is excruciatingly overpowering and super dank...literally a palate wrecker. It reminds me of a hoppy wheat beer with columbus hops that failed horribly a couple of years ago (I learned a lot from that beer). Anyway, is this likely due to hop matter that settled in the keg overnight and is being pulled out into the glass? It is purposely a cloudy beer and I don't see any specks floating around. I took a smaller, second sample and it seemed to be less powerful but still pretty much undrinkable...   

I am half tempted to pull the hops out but don't want to jump the gun. I have never noticed this in any of my keg hopped beers in the past granted those were APAs or IPAs and this is not. Any thoughts?

In a cloth muslin bag ? If so,  those don't contain hop matter very well.  I use fine mesh nylon paint strainer bags.  If you go ahead and pull the bag, the hop matter would be minimized. Then buy a sure screen like this - http://www.amazon.com/KegWorks-Homebrew-Hops-Filter-Screen/dp/B006FX4ZCK. You'll need to take out the diptube and slide it over. It'll keep the harsh tasting hop matter out of your glass. Remember that hop character fades quickly. If you keep the particulate in the keg, you'll be good. Good luck !
Jon H.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4352
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2015, 09:27:48 PM »
Rather than a sure screen, I've used a braided hose.  Like you would in a mash tun.

Same thing.  I had a dry hopped beer that was chunky.  I might have just tossed them in with no bag, I don't recall.  But it was like pouring a glass of hop matter.

Slipped the braided hose on the dip tube and all was good.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 09:32:15 PM »
Thanks guys. It is a loose cloth bag. So you think the harshness is from hop particulate?

This is what I have used in the past without issue but I guess this time is just different. Since it is only 1 oz I will wait to see if it continues to be a problem before taking any action. I have a feeling loose matter will decrease with time.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 09:41:08 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 10:15:46 PM »
Actually, if you decide now or ever to get a sure screen, disregard the first link. I have two - the first one is a more coarse screen that works pretty well, but this one is a much finer screen. No way a braided hose could filter as well as this one -   http://us.kromedispense.com/product/pure-screen-stainless-steel-304/
Jon H.

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 01:19:18 PM »
Thanks for the links. I am going to give it a couple of more days before taking any action. The keg sitting right next to it was keg hopped in the same manner and has not exhibited this issue. I am hoping it was just the initial fine hop matter that slipped through.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2015, 07:36:06 PM »
Just had a sample for day 2 with pretty much the same results. Not quite as harsh but still overpowering. Looking closely, I could see a bit of hop matter in the glass...

Since I don't have any filter prepared for this I think I will just let the hops sit for at least a week then pull them. This is probably a keg that I will be drinking all myself over the summer so there is no rush to get it going.

I would hold off on sampling except for the fact that I threw a couple of habaneros in yesterday as well. At this point they are completely undetectable. In a prior attempt, I used one diced hab and it took about 3 days to be at the perfect level. This time, I was lazy and pierced 2 habs instead. This method may take longer but I am hoping to achieve the same result.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline stpug

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 03:37:06 PM »
I've noticed when drinking beer with hop particulate in solution (usually with pellet hops in a keg) that a biting/tingling is noticed in the back of the throat. They also come across more bitter when starting the keg then after getting into it a gallon or so.

As far as checking for particulate, the hop particulate seems to settle out pretty quickly. If you pour a beer into a clear glass and just let it sit on the counter for 10 minutes, then pick it up and look up at the bottom you should be able to see hop particles settled out there.

Lastly, I've found the harshest (most green, grassy, tea-flavored, off-putting) hop qualities come out the quickest but are overshadowed by the better qualities in a short time. Specifically in a cold keg, I would say 1-4 days are the worst for the bad qualities, and that they improve over the next few days (4-14). I suspect this has something to do with the myrcene oils slowly volatilizing at any temperature and it just takes a few days for them to "go away".

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 03:46:06 PM »
presume pellets or plug being used? i have always used leaf to dry hop without issue. why one over the other is curious to me?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 03:55:04 PM »
I am using pellets. Again, I just find it strange that this is the first time this has happened but it is what it is. I am definitely seeing hop matter in the glass. I was hoping that it was just an initial settling but that may not be the case. If it won't subside I will likely pull the hops after a week or so.
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 03:59:21 PM »
FWIW, my current procedure is to dry hop in the keg in a paint strainer bag, but also use a sure screen on the dip tube to catch any stray particulate that gets through the paint bag. Which is next to nothing. Hops are great, hop matter in the glass, not so great.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 03:59:42 PM »
I am using pellets. Again, I just find it strange that this is the first time this has happened but it is what it is. I am definitely seeing hop matter in the glass. I was hoping that it was just an initial settling but that may not be the case. If it won't subside I will likely pull the hops after a week or so.

understood. does your bag get weighted and sink or is it on the surface?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 04:00:24 PM »
I am using pellets. Again, I just find it strange that this is the first time this has happened but it is what it is. I am definitely seeing hop matter in the glass. I was hoping that it was just an initial settling but that may not be the case. If it won't subside I will likely pull the hops after a week or so.

understood. does your bag get weighted and sink or is it on the surface?

Weighted with marbles for me.
Jon H.

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 04:17:52 PM »
Not weighted here. I add the hops to the muslin bag, tie it off tight, dunk in sanitizer, then straight to the keg. My normal process was to dry hop in the fermenter using a paint strainer bag. I have been having good luck in the keg so thought it would be a simpler solution. I just need to get a screen on the dip tube for future batches as recommended and use more of fine mesh bag for the hops. I guess I got lucky before.

It's kind of a crazy beer and is requiring more babysitting than I had planned  :o

« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 04:23:34 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA

Offline goschman

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3448
    • View Profile
Re: harshness from keg hops
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2015, 01:50:05 PM »
The beer is pouring without leaving hop matter in the glass and tastes great without need to remove the hops from the keg. This was probably just a case of impatience however I felt I needed to taste the beer more often due to other ingredients in the keg.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 01:53:06 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Haze for Daze IPA, G Pils, Maibock, Kolsch, Summer Gold       

Fermenting: 
Up Next: Euro Pale, IPA