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Author Topic: I like the Brewing Network, but....  (Read 44550 times)

Offline Stevie

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #345 on: June 25, 2015, 04:36:28 pm »

You want to compete against the BN, I recommend you up your brewing game.
If you truly believe that this is the reason the BN won COTY, then clearly you have not been paying attention. The club that other clubs should use as inspiration to "step up their brewing game," is the Austin Zealots who took us all to school in the final round with their awesome medal winning beers.
AZ beers are damn solid. I certainly lookup to some of those cats.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #346 on: June 25, 2015, 04:41:43 pm »
So think about it.  Do we want to recognize the club with the most points in the competition or not?  If not, what should we be recognizing?
Kinda wondering if you actually did read all 20 pages of this thread because I'm pretty sure that most folks chatting here clearly state they want this to be a competitive award and not solely be for the 2 clubs that  actually have enough entries to win this award. If it's going to remain a tonnage style award, then I would like to see Radegast and Gambrinus elevated with more pomp and circumstance as both those awards are equally achievable for all clubs and AHA members, unlike COTY.

Yes, I read it, although I admit to only skimming the novel you wrote on p. 9.

The question I am asking is not "Do we want Club of the Year to be more competitive?" Separate the name from what the award is actually for.  Do we want to recognize the club with the most points in the competition or not?  Yes or no?  I think it is an impressive achievement.  As impressive as most points in the 2nd round (not currently an award)?  No.  As impressive as most final round points per entry (currently the Gambrinus Club of the Year award)?  No.  But still really cool.

Perhaps the answer is to rename Homebrew Club of the Year to Juggernaut (thanks theDarkSide), and create one based on second round points only.

The BN Army is a club if they want to be a club. They don't need a board, a charter, a constitution, articles of incorporation, dues, or a meeting to be a club. The only requirement to be a club should be a group of brewers that share a common bond and have a desire to be together as one.
I would agree with this, especially since two out of three clubs I belonged to would not be considered clubs if this was required.  And neither one is the BN club.

As for Justin and his influence, he is not on the competition committee and to my recollection has never commented to me at all about anything related to the competition or tried to influence any decision in any way.  Except I think one year after the banquet he said he wished QUAFF would have won Club of the Year that year.

And as for melliott2811's comment that "the GC could change things", the GC does not change anything.  We are an advisory group, not a board of directors.  We make suggestions and provide feedback, the AHA makes the changes.  Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't.

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Tom Schmidlin

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #347 on: June 25, 2015, 04:43:12 pm »
Screw it. I belong to two, and half belong to a third, awesome clubs. I live 1800 miles from my "home club" that I would enter under. I normally don't enter because I feel it is a waste of money and effort to pay entry and shipping. Next year I will enter my max under BN Army with my buddy Jim. I might have my wife brew some and enter her max as well.

The BN Army is a club if they want to be a club. They don't need a board, a charter, a constitution, articles of incorporation, dues, or a meeting to be a club. The only requirement to be a club should be a group of brewers that share a common bond and have a desire to be together as one.

I don't think a rule change is needed. If a club wants to win, that club needs to increase their numbers and brew better beer. First round ribbons should count as it took a good beer to get that ribbon. Add a "National Homebrew Competition" to the front of the title and call it a day.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #348 on: June 25, 2015, 09:39:11 pm »
What doesn't make it seem unimportant is the name, Club of the Year sounds like a big deal.  I would be perfectly happy renaming the Gambrinus award Club of the Year, and calling the club with the most points in the competition the Gambrinus award winner or some other name.

That would be my preferred solution. Gambrinus becomes Club of the Year (or not, whatever), and COTY is renamed to something like NHC Champion Club.
This was my thinking on the 8 hour drive today.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2015, 09:38:19 am »
I don't really brew for competitions, so I've stayed out of this conversation so far. But I keep hearing this issue come up every year. I do have a few thoughts on the issue, many of which have already been stated or implied by others.

- Homebrew clubs come in all shapes and sizes. By this fact alone, there is no way to define a set of rules that won't favor certain clubs more than others. No matter what you do to the rules, someone is always going to see it as unfair.

- I am not a member of the BN club, but I think it is awesome that they are able to compete (and be successful) as a club despite not being a club in the traditional sense. As times change, more and more of us aren't able to join traditional clubs, either because of geography, careers or family. As many others have stated, I consider this forum to be my homebrew club. Even if I had a local club that met next door to me, I'd have a hard time making it to regular meetings.

- For reasons stated above, I intend to enter some competitions this year (including the NHC) under the newly formed AHA Forum Club. I think that having the ability to compete as part of a non-traditional club is important and I intend to support that.

- If you're so über-competitive that you feel the need to boo your fellow homebrewers when you lose, then you need to RDWHAHB. Oh, and you're a jerk, too.

- I was very disappointed by the lack of dick jokes in Justin's post. The internet led me to believe that the BN was just a bunch of misogynists making dick jokes. Shame on you internet; I trusted you.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #350 on: June 26, 2015, 09:56:08 am »
I don't really brew for competitions, so I've stayed out of this conversation so far. But I keep hearing this issue come up every year. I do have a few thoughts on the issue, many of which have already been stated or implied by others.

- Homebrew clubs come in all shapes and sizes. By this fact alone, there is no way to define a set of rules that won't favor certain clubs more than others. No matter what you do to the rules, someone is always going to see it as unfair.

- I am not a member of the BN club, but I think it is awesome that they are able to compete (and be successful) as a club despite not being a club in the traditional sense. As times change, more and more of us aren't able to join traditional clubs, either because of geography, careers or family. As many others have stated, I consider this forum to be my homebrew club. Even if I had a local club that met next door to me, I'd have a hard time making it to regular meetings.

- For reasons stated above, I intend to enter some competitions this year (including the NHC) under the newly formed AHA Forum Club. I think that having the ability to compete as part of a non-traditional club is important and I intend to support that.

- If you're so über-competitive that you feel the need to boo your fellow homebrewers when you lose, then you need to RDWHAHB. Oh, and you're a jerk, too.

- I was very disappointed by the lack of dick jokes in Justin's post. The internet led me to believe that the BN was just a bunch of misogynists making dick jokes. Shame on you internet; I trusted you.
Refreshing and thoughtful

BTW most of the juvenile dick joking is on Zainashef's shows.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 09:59:18 am by klickitat jim »

Offline lunitick1976@hotmail.com

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2015, 11:31:04 am »
I'm sure this will be contentious, but I wanted to see how others felt about this before I send my thoughts to the AHA directly.

While I support the Brewing Network and enjoy their content, it's just silly that they are allowed to be considered an AHA club towards Homebrew Club of the Year... By default they reach far more people than any other club possibly could. Assuming no changes, they pretty much have 'homebrew club of the year' locked up for eternity unless another national club starts. To me and many others, a club means a local group of homebrewers that are specific to a region or geographical area. I imagine it is demoralizing to great clubs like QUAFF and other regional groups that have worked hard to build a local scene and community, and not have a chance towards club of the year.

Also, I would have liked to see the "Final Round Club of the Year" (Gambrinus Club Award?) get equal airtime to talk on the mic at the banquet as the BN did.
Maybe other clubs should learn to brew better beer. I am a member of a brew club in New Mexico, we don't worry about NHC or comps, we care about great brewing and fun. Another point that is brought up on the brewing network is there are a lot of clubs out there that are full of assholes, that turns people towards groups like TBN.

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Offline bboy9000

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #352 on: June 26, 2015, 11:37:14 am »

I'm sure this will be contentious, but I wanted to see how others felt about this before I send my thoughts to the AHA directly.

While I support the Brewing Network and enjoy their content, it's just silly that they are allowed to be considered an AHA club towards Homebrew Club of the Year... By default they reach far more people than any other club possibly could. Assuming no changes, they pretty much have 'homebrew club of the year' locked up for eternity unless another national club starts. To me and many others, a club means a local group of homebrewers that are specific to a region or geographical area. I imagine it is demoralizing to great clubs like QUAFF and other regional groups that have worked hard to build a local scene and community, and not have a chance towards club of the year.

Also, I would have liked to see the "Final Round Club of the Year" (Gambrinus Club Award?) get equal airtime to talk on the mic at the banquet as the BN did.
Maybe other clubs should learn to brew better beer. I am a member of a brew club in New Mexico, we don't worry about NHC or comps, we care about great brewing and fun. Another point that is brought up on the brewing network is there are a lot of clubs out there that are full of assholes, that turns people towards groups like TBN.

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Notice the reason the OP doesn't think the BN should be a club is because we win COTY, not because of any perceived characteristics of a club that we are lacking.
Brian
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Offline pete b

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #353 on: June 26, 2015, 11:39:28 am »
I don't really brew for competitions, so I've stayed out of this conversation so far. But I keep hearing this issue come up every year. I do have a few thoughts on the issue, many of which have already been stated or implied by others.

- Homebrew clubs come in all shapes and sizes. By this fact alone, there is no way to define a set of rules that won't favor certain clubs more than others. No matter what you do to the rules, someone is always going to see it as unfair.

- I am not a member of the BN club, but I think it is awesome that they are able to compete (and be successful) as a club despite not being a club in the traditional sense. As times change, more and more of us aren't able to join traditional clubs, either because of geography, careers or family. As many others have stated, I consider this forum to be my homebrew club. Even if I had a local club that met next door to me, I'd have a hard time making it to regular meetings.

- For reasons stated above, I intend to enter some competitions this year (including the NHC) under the newly formed AHA Forum Club. I think that having the ability to compete as part of a non-traditional club is important and I intend to support that.

- If you're so über-competitive that you feel the need to boo your fellow homebrewers when you lose, then you need to RDWHAHB. Oh, and you're a jerk, too.

- I was very disappointed by the lack of dick jokes in Justin's post. The internet led me to believe that the BN was just a bunch of misogynists making dick jokes. Shame on you internet; I trusted you.
I agree with all of this but also see this conversation as an opportunity for the AHA to make COTY more meaningful.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline bboy9000

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #354 on: June 26, 2015, 11:43:10 am »
I agree with all of this but also see this conversation as an opportunity for the AHA to make COTY more meaningful.

Sounds like COTY is already meaningful based on the upset people posting.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 11:44:38 am by dbeechum »
Brian
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #355 on: June 26, 2015, 11:50:48 am »
all the "they should brew better beer" bravado makes me hope BN one day wins Club Of The Year...WITHOUT WINNING A SINGLE MEDAL.
 ::)
Bets on whether we will still see "let them catch up with us" at that point?

Offline pete b

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #356 on: June 26, 2015, 12:27:57 pm »
I agree with all of this but also see this conversation as an opportunity for the AHA to make COTY more meaningful.

Sounds like COTY is already meaningful based on the upset people posting.
I'm sure it is to some. Where I'm coming from, as someone who didn't know how COTY was awarded before this thread, is surprise that an award for "Club of the Year" is based on basically adding up achievements by individuals who choose to identify as a club member.  I just think it would be great if COTY was an award that rewarded the winning club based on performance at the NHC competition as a club. I'm just saying this as an AHA member. As far as I know I have never actually met anyone in a homebrew club and may never enter a competition so I have no hard feelings or sour grapes, just perplexed that this award would be valued as is.
While some have singled out BN many of the posters on this thread, especially earlier before some first time posters arrived in the last couple days and stirred things up, have taken great pains that they only have a problem with the existence of the award and what its called, not any particular club.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #357 on: June 26, 2015, 12:46:41 pm »
Where I'm coming from, as someone who didn't know how COTY was awarded before this thread, is surprise that an award for "Club of the Year" is based on basically adding up achievements by individuals who choose to identify as a club member.  I just think it would be great if COTY was an award that rewarded the winning club based on performance at the NHC competition as a club.

Can you elaborate on how those are different?
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Offline toby

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #358 on: June 26, 2015, 01:01:48 pm »
all the "they should brew better beer" bravado makes me hope BN one day wins Club Of The Year...WITHOUT WINNING A SINGLE MEDAL.
 ::)
Bets on whether we will still see "let them catch up with us" at that point?
Yes.  I would bet yes you would.

My perspective on the 'brew better beer' argument is that it rings hollow, and I'm not in the camp that thinks the rules need to be changed necessarily.  It's clearly a case of violating the spirit of the rules without violating the letter of the rules.

As a personal example, we have a newly established state circuit that was an attempt to generate more participation and positive interactions between the clubs in the state.  One club has a member who lives in the state next door but has been traveling a lot to our state for work.  He is a prolific entrant within his home state's circuit and only enters as a part of the local club within our state circuit's comps (for everything else he enters as part of his main club).  Brewing better beer will only get people so far against him because of the volume of his entries (he has been entering in nearly every subcategory).  The only rules for the circuit and the homebrewer of the year currently are that the winner has to belong to a club within the state.  However, the club circuit promotions all basically state "Are you the best brewer in <STATE>?"  It will be interesting to see the reaction to the circuit next year if/when the winner doesn't even live in the state.  It already seems that the competitions for the rest of the year are severely lacking in promotion within state among the clubs.  I think that's what the people that are concerned about how 'meaningful' the award is are trying to get across.  Obviously NHC is a little different, since I think individual entrants will always enter for their own personal reasons.

Offline pete b

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #359 on: June 26, 2015, 01:02:32 pm »
Where I'm coming from, as someone who didn't know how COTY was awarded before this thread, is surprise that an award for "Club of the Year" is based on basically adding up achievements by individuals who choose to identify as a club member.  I just think it would be great if COTY was an award that rewarded the winning club based on performance at the NHC competition as a club.

Can you elaborate on how those are different?
Its my understanding, and I could be wrong, it happens all the time, that COTY gives points based on how individuals place who self identify as a member of club x. It is also my understanding that the club has no direct role in brewing the individual beers, vetting which beers get entered under the club name etc. So 100 people could enter 500 beers that they made with no input from the club. I think it would be cool if COTY was awarded based on some type of actual collaboration or cooperation within the club, so that the club who wins is actually being recognized by their functioning as a club, not just a collection of individuals who may or may not know each other or communicate with each other. One suggestion would be to limit each club to x number of beers entered AS A CLUB (anyone can still enter individually and identify their club so it can be included in the individual award). That way the club, as a club, would have to make decisions and work together to win Club of the Year. I'm sure those experienced with competition would have better ideas how to do this but that's what I mean.
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