Author Topic: I like the Brewing Network, but....  (Read 17543 times)

Offline ercousin

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Toronto, ON
    • View Profile
    • Eric Brews
I like the Brewing Network, but....
« on: June 15, 2015, 04:51:52 PM »
I'm sure this will be contentious, but I wanted to see how others felt about this before I send my thoughts to the AHA directly.

While I support the Brewing Network and enjoy their content, it's just silly that they are allowed to be considered an AHA club towards Homebrew Club of the Year... By default they reach far more people than any other club possibly could. Assuming no changes, they pretty much have 'homebrew club of the year' locked up for eternity unless another national club starts. To me and many others, a club means a local group of homebrewers that are specific to a region or geographical area. I imagine it is demoralizing to great clubs like QUAFF and other regional groups that have worked hard to build a local scene and community, and not have a chance towards club of the year.

Also, I would have liked to see the "Final Round Club of the Year" (Gambrinus Club Award?) get equal airtime to talk on the mic at the banquet as the BN did.
Eric Cousineau
Toronto, ON

Club: GTA Brews (http://www.gtabrews.ca)
Blog: Eric Brews (http://ericbrews.com)

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3112
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 04:55:27 PM »
From what I have seen/read, this is an ongoing issue, and not likely to end soon. I entered nothing, so my thoughts dont hold as much water, but I agree with you completely
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 05:00:40 PM »
Plenty of threads here and on other forums regarding this. The main argument is it allows folks that do not have access to a proper club claim a club. 

Offline brulosopher

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • They who drink beer will think beer
    • View Profile
    • Brülosophy
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 05:06:03 PM »
I love The BN and believe they have contributed an insurmountable amount of information to the homebrewing community. Being my first NHC, I was under the impression the booing when they won (which we all expected) was for fun. I'm not sure what I really think about the fact they continue to win CotY, but I'm compelled to encourage the formation of perhaps a collaborative new (and huge) club that's focused solely on winning this award. It may take some time, but I don't think it's impossible, and my guess is even The BN would view it as a fun thing.

Ultimately, "we" are who makeup the BN Army (I am a member), we are this community. The fact they are now expected to win based purely on their numbers absolutely waters down the award. Hmm.

Offline ercousin

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Toronto, ON
    • View Profile
    • Eric Brews
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 05:17:42 PM »
I didn't boo at the banquet, but I can see why others might have.

I guess to me it's an issue of club vs community.

A club is a group of individuals from an area that meets up to share homebrew, organize competitions, participate in and organize brewing related events. There is a regional pride aspect to a club I think, it was really cool to see the clubs from St Paul MN, Austin TX, and Woodbridge NJ spar in the final round and edge each other out for that COTY (final round medals count) title.

A community focuses much less on the local aspect on more on the gathering of like minded people in one place with no geographical requirement. I would consider groups like r/homebrewing, homebrewtalk, and the Brewing Network, communities. These are groups with 100k+ members and if they all organized and rallied their members the same way the BN did no local club would ever have a chance again.

I fully understand that others may not share these definitions with me.
Eric Cousineau
Toronto, ON

Club: GTA Brews (http://www.gtabrews.ca)
Blog: Eric Brews (http://ericbrews.com)

Offline sfletty

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 05:19:16 PM »
I have no ill will toward the BN, but they are an entirely different animal. They can field entrants in every region in the country. This is not a level playing field. No regional club can make a run at the Club of the Year award.

Yeah, when the St Paul Homebrewers club threepeated we did have Gordon Strong competing with us, but we only needed his points one year to actually win it. Also, we only had one extra guy in one extra region NOT in every region in the country.

Also, when QUAFF did 6 in a row, they did have Jamil in a second region. Again, however, only 2 regions in one state. Not the same as EVERY REGION in the country.

In my opinion Club of the Year has become a joke. The award has been cheapened.

Again, I'll repeat: No rancor toward the BN, but seriously....

So we could probably form a super Midwest club or a large anit-BN club and get some great brewers on board to take on BN, which there's been talk about doing, but what would that prove or mean? It would just be the same BS.

Enough. I'm sick of the argument about the BN enabling someone who can't join a club...blah blah blah.....there's a difference between a regionally based local club where people actually have meetings and know each other personally, and a virtual club.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19762
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 05:21:19 PM »
I agree with every point Steve made.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline testingapril

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 05:23:31 PM »
...it allows folks that do not have access to a proper club claim a club.

As someone who's claimed BN as my club in numerous comps, this is important. I don't claim them as my club anymore, however.

The award is basically just "largest homebrew club" so if BN is discounted, why? They've done what they needed to become the largest club. Alternately, it's "club with an absurd number of NHC entries" and again, they've done a great job encouraging brewing competition and entering NHC, so why should they be discounted because they've been successful in that area. Congratulating that is a good thing, IMO.

The Radegast award is a much loftier goal for clubs to shoot for overall, IMO, but if you are looking for something competition-wise to shoot for, then the Gambrinus award is a loftier goal than 'club of the year', because Gambrinus accounts for size of the club.

Maybe this is a disagreement on the naming of the different awards? I don't think I agree that Gambrinus should be renamed 'club of the year'. Pretty much everyone considers the Ninkasi to be the top individual award, not Homebrewer of the Year right? So the name isn't strictly attached to the prestige of the award, it would seem.

I think maybe it would be better to just shift the prestige to the Gambrinus award, than try to rule out the BN artificially somehow.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 05:26:05 PM by testingapril »

Offline sfletty

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 05:27:55 PM »
I was not booing, but no it was not for fun. People don't like this.

You have to think about this for a moment to realize the level of frustration for clubs that are not nationally based. They can't compete.

Even large regional clubs can barely do so. We can't in St Paul anymore. We don't have the numbers.

Also, calling the BN a club....well....yeah, there is that aspect, but isn't it also a business? Isn't someone making money off this? Seriously? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

While the BN has provided info to people, it's not the be all and end all of brewing.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 05:31:35 PM »
I agree with every point Steve made.

+2
Jon H.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19762
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 05:35:10 PM »
I was not booing, but no it was not for fun. People don't like this.

You have to think about this for a moment to realize the level of frustration for clubs that are not nationally based. They can't compete.

Even large regional clubs can barely do so. We can't in St Paul anymore. We don't have the numbers.

Also, calling the BN a club....well....yeah, there is that aspect, but isn't it also a business? Isn't someone making money off this? Seriously? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

While the BN has provided info to people, it's not the be all and end all of brewing.

Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline sfletty

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 05:37:54 PM »
...it allows folks that do not have access to a proper club claim a club.

The award is basically just "largest homebrew club" so if BN is discounted, why? They've done what they needed to become the largest club. Alternately, it's "club with an absurd number of NHC entries" and again, they've done a great job encouraging brewing competition and entering NHC, so why should they be discounted because they've been successful in that area. Congratulating that is a good thing, IMO.


Yeah, I guess that's what it has become, but it should NOT be that, in my opinion.

When the St Paul Homebrewers threepeated we were not even the largest club in the state of Minnesota. We set a goal to take on QUAFF. It took us 4 years, but we managed to do it with a lot of great LOCAL brewers, not a virtual alliance of people who don't really know one another beyond making dick jokes online.  :D

Why shouldn't other regional clubs be able to set that goal and go for it? Do we really have to form some huge alliance to take down BN just to prove a point? And what difference would that make?

Online brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Chicago
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2015, 05:43:58 PM »
...it allows folks that do not have access to a proper club claim a club.

As someone who's claimed BN as my club in numerous comps, this is important. I don't claim them as my club anymore, however.

Why is this important?  Claiming a club is not a requirement when entering competitions.
Jon Weaver

Offline sfletty

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2015, 05:48:18 PM »
I'm sure this will be contentious, but I wanted to see how others felt about this before I send my thoughts to the AHA directly.

Also, I would have liked to see the "Final Round Club of the Year" (Gambrinus Club Award?) get equal airtime to talk on the mic at the banquet as the BN did.

Contentious or not, I think this needs to be said.

And, yes, why does Justin get to get up there and give a speech?

Either the BN is a club or a business and a sponsor.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 05:52:52 PM by sfletty »

Offline ercousin

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Toronto, ON
    • View Profile
    • Eric Brews
Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2015, 05:48:47 PM »
I think just giving more clout/attention to the Gambrinus winner would be better IMO. Whichever club wins the most second round medals should be the overall club of the year. Why bother giving a second round award to the club with most first round medals?


This year the WHALES club from Woodbridge NJ won, are they considered a huge club?
Eric Cousineau
Toronto, ON

Club: GTA Brews (http://www.gtabrews.ca)
Blog: Eric Brews (http://ericbrews.com)