Author Topic: I like the Brewing Network, but....  (Read 17541 times)

Offline guido

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2015, 09:41:54 AM »
I love The BN and believe they have contributed an insurmountable amount of information to the homebrewing community. Being my first NHC, I was under the impression the booing when they won (which we all expected) was for fun. I'm not sure what I really think about the fact they continue to win CotY, but I'm compelled to encourage the formation of perhaps a collaborative new (and huge) club that's focused solely on winning this award. It may take some time, but I don't think it's impossible, and my guess is even The BN would view it as a fun thing.

Ultimately, "we" are who makeup the BN Army (I am a member), we are this community. The fact they are now expected to win based purely on their numbers absolutely waters down the award. Hmm.
The Austin Club killed it in the second round, but BN had the most first round points, which put them over.

I didn't boo. They won under the rules that are posted. Could the rules be changed? Yes.

Good points by Steve.

I agree. Yeah, it's not fair that the BN won COTY, but those are the rules. I'm sure the AHA didn't foresee such a situation when they originally drafted the award criteria. It is what it is. That said, the rules need to be changed.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2015, 12:10:39 PM »
This sort of drama is the reason why I have no interest in ANY of the competitions. I'd love to have my beers evaluated and win medals, sure, but there seems to be even more gamesmanship here than my old hobby of auto racing.

I have no dog in this fight, I can agree with both sides of the argument about BN. I just hope people new to the hobby aren't put off by this mess.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 12:15:10 PM by Phil_M »
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2015, 12:23:13 PM »
I love The BN and believe they have contributed an insurmountable amount of information to the homebrewing community. Being my first NHC, I was under the impression the booing when they won (which we all expected) was for fun. I'm not sure what I really think about the fact they continue to win CotY, but I'm compelled to encourage the formation of perhaps a collaborative new (and huge) club that's focused solely on winning this award. It may take some time, but I don't think it's impossible, and my guess is even The BN would view it as a fun thing.

Ultimately, "we" are who makeup the BN Army (I am a member), we are this community. The fact they are now expected to win based purely on their numbers absolutely waters down the award. Hmm.
The Austin Club killed it in the second round, but BN had the most first round points, which put them over.

I didn't boo. They won under the rules that are posted. Could the rules be changed? Yes.

Good points by Steve.

I agree. Yeah, it's not fair that the BN won COTY, but those are the rules. I'm sure the AHA didn't foresee such a situation when they originally drafted the award criteria. It is what it is. That said, the rules need to be changed.
Fine, the rules need to be changed, but let's change them in a way that's fair for all members and not exclude a large group of paying AHA members just because everyone thinks the BN has an unfair advantage.  Maybe the AHA can release the number of entries entered by each of the larger clubs.  What if Quaff has nearly as many or even more entries under their club but the BN still had more first round points.  Would that change people's attitudes?

As far as the BN not being a club...I've met most of my brewing friends through the Brewing Network.  Whenever I'm at festivals and I see a BN shirt or hat, I stop and chat with them, most of the time meeting someone from the forum that I can know put a face too.  One BN member from VA has family in the town next to mine and we get together for beer festivals, brewery tours, etc. 

As to the fact that you don't think the Brewing Network club could win Radegast, I wouldn't count them out so fast.  A lot of times the call will go out to the BN Army when someone is raising money for charity or a club member passes away, and the club membership responds with support on a massive scale.

Try to remember, these club members are fellow homebrewers and AHA members and have no ill-will towards anyone or evil plan to overthrow the AHA.  They are just as excited to win a medal and get the recognition they deserve for brewing some great beer.

I enter several local (and not so local) competitions each year, yes for winning a medal but also to push myself to improve my brewing skills.  The AHA competition is the World Series in my mind...going up against some of the best homebrewers in the world. 

Again, I am a BNArmy "CLUB" member, but enter under my small local club so I have no illusions about winning COTY or even Gambrinus.  Even when they've won the past 5 years and Justin calls the BNArmy up on stage, I didn't go because I didn't enter under the BN (one year was because I doubt I could have made it to the stage ;) )

It shall be an interesting year seeing how this develops for sure.
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2015, 12:32:44 PM »

I love The BN and believe they have contributed an insurmountable amount of information to the homebrewing community. Being my first NHC, I was under the impression the booing when they won (which we all expected) was for fun. I'm not sure what I really think about the fact they continue to win CotY, but I'm compelled to encourage the formation of perhaps a collaborative new (and huge) club that's focused solely on winning this award. It may take some time, but I don't think it's impossible, and my guess is even The BN would view it as a fun thing.

Ultimately, "we" are who makeup the BN Army (I am a member), we are this community. The fact they are now expected to win based purely on their numbers absolutely waters down the award. Hmm.
The Austin Club killed it in the second round, but BN had the most first round points, which put them over.

I didn't boo. They won under the rules that are posted. Could the rules be changed? Yes.

Good points by Steve.

I agree. Yeah, it's not fair that the BN won COTY, but those are the rules. I'm sure the AHA didn't foresee such a situation when they originally drafted the award criteria. It is what it is. That said, the rules need to be changed.
Try to remember, these club members are fellow homebrewers and AHA members and have no ill-will towards anyone or evil plan to overthrow the AHA.  They are just as excited to win a medal and get the recognition they deserve for brewing some great beer.
Indeed.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2015, 01:53:25 PM »




On Justin's usefulness as a GC member - he's been pretty damn valuable and is a helluva lot more thoughtful than I think people would give him credit for.

When I bluntly asked, this was the answer I suspected and im glad it came from someone who would know and not be doubted. Thanks Drew

Offline denny

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2015, 03:37:10 PM »
Just out of curiosity, how many people wrote BN down as their club on their entry sheets? Does anyone know? If not then how can  sheer numbers be a valid argument? If the argument is that its unfair to have so many winners, well isnt that the point? The only valid point is their wingspan, but dont the same rules apply to all clubs? If you want club of the year just get more members from the other regions. If the reply to that is that its not easy to get members from other regions, well was it somehow easier for Justin? I suppose, since I doubt he even cares.

Yes, it was easier for them because they have a podcast to use as a recruitment tool.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2015, 03:53:31 PM »
Just out of curiosity, how many people wrote BN down as their club on their entry sheets? Does anyone know? If not then how can  sheer numbers be a valid argument? If the argument is that its unfair to have so many winners, well isnt that the point? The only valid point is their wingspan, but dont the same rules apply to all clubs? If you want club of the year just get more members from the other regions. If the reply to that is that its not easy to get members from other regions, well was it somehow easier for Justin? I suppose, since I doubt he even cares.

Yes, it was easier for them because they have a podcast to use as a recruitment tool.
I hear ya. But I listen to every podcast and they dont recruit. Its there, they chat about it, but not like "come on everyone, write down BN as your club". From my perspective Justin views it as an albatross around his neck. As to the podcast, you're right. But what I'm trying to hint at is that the podcast and Brewing Network and tge Hop Grenade didn't just fall out of the sky.

Offline pete b

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2015, 03:54:40 PM »
As a completely neutral observer (don't have a club, don't enter competitions), Amanda's suggestion that there be 3 awards for small, medium, and large clubs makes the most sense. Its fair and it would actually motivate more clubs because every one would have a shot.
If I had time and there was a good one near me I might join a club but it would be to hang out and talk home brewing and do things together. If its not small enough and local enough for me to know everyone in it I personally wouldn't refer to it as a "club". I would consider it an "organization" or "association".
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #98 on: June 16, 2015, 03:58:11 PM »
As a completely neutral observer (don't have a club, don't enter competitions), Amanda's suggestion that there be 3 awards for small, medium, and large clubs makes the most sense. Its fair and it would actually motivate more clubs because every one would have a shot.
If I had time and there was a good one near me I might join a club but it would be to hang out and talk home brewing and do things together. If its not small enough and local enough for me to know everyone in it I personally wouldn't refer to it as a "club". I would consider it an "organization" or "association".

+1  Seems the fairest solution to me.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2015, 04:31:07 PM »
As a completely neutral observer (don't have a club, don't enter competitions), Amanda's suggestion that there be 3 awards for small, medium, and large clubs makes the most sense. Its fair and it would actually motivate more clubs because every one would have a shot.
If I had time and there was a good one near me I might join a club but it would be to hang out and talk home brewing and do things together. If its not small enough and local enough for me to know everyone in it I personally wouldn't refer to it as a "club". I would consider it an "organization" or "association".

+1  Seems the fairest solution to me.
Fair and neutral is what we should be aiming for, IMO. I'm glad the idea comes off as that.

We can't fault the BN for being perfectly within the rules and winning. When entry limits were put in place, it switched from having many great brewers to just having a lot of brewers. The BN has a lot of brewers, therefore they have been winning. That's all it really is at this point.

Club of the Year shouldn't be about who can field the largest pool of brewers, but until the rules change, that's what it will be.

FWIW, I already sent my suggestions to someone I know on the AHA Comp sub committee. I encourage you all to do the same (but only if you keep a level head about it - shouting at volunteers is never good form).
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Offline homebrewdad7

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #100 on: June 16, 2015, 04:37:43 PM »
I'd like to agree with the idea that this really should be split into clubs (local organizations where people physically meet) and online communities (where people post to forums, browse a website, etc).

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #101 on: June 16, 2015, 06:32:35 PM »
Drew' suggestion to entry number weight the first round entries is good and workable.

Amanda's suggestion has attractiveness and would be workable. I have to say as someone who grew up in Indiana where every school played in the basketball tourney with no size categories (remember the movie Hoosiers?), the term Basketball State Champion was cheapened when they finally did go to a size based tourney. It ain't what it used to be, I don't follow it anymore. Just my $0.02.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #102 on: June 16, 2015, 06:43:57 PM »
I have to say as someone who grew up in Indiana where every school played in the basketball tourney with no size categories (remember the movie Hoosiers?), the term Basketball State Champion was cheapened when they finally did go to a size based tourney. It ain't what it used to be, I don't follow it anymore. Just my $0.02.

I don't follow it anymore either, Jeff.  It ruined it.  I'd add though that Hickory High still got to play 5 against 5 when they played Muncie.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #103 on: June 16, 2015, 06:59:28 PM »
I have to say as someone who grew up in Indiana where every school played in the basketball tourney with no size categories (remember the movie Hoosiers?), the term Basketball State Champion was cheapened when they finally did go to a size based tourney. It ain't what it used to be, I don't follow it anymore. Just my $0.02.

I don't follow it anymore either, Jeff.  It ruined it.  I'd add though that Hickory High still got to play 5 against 5 when they played Muncie.
Bobby Plump's Last Shot was an institution in Broad Ripple, still there I think. An Indiana reference for sure.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: I like the Brewing Network, but....
« Reply #104 on: June 16, 2015, 07:08:10 PM »
I have to say as someone who grew up in Indiana where every school played in the basketball tourney with no size categories (remember the movie Hoosiers?), the term Basketball State Champion was cheapened when they finally did go to a size based tourney. It ain't what it used to be, I don't follow it anymore. Just my $0.02.

I don't follow it anymore either, Jeff.  It ruined it.  I'd add though that Hickory High still got to play 5 against 5 when they played Muncie.
Bobby Plump's Last Shot was an institution in Broad Ripple, still there I think. An Indiana reference for sure.

Yep, still there to my knowledge. A few new brewpubs and tasting rooms as well.
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