Author Topic: Pitch Rates  (Read 795 times)

Offline flbrewer

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Pitch Rates
« on: June 18, 2015, 10:54:46 PM »
I won't bore you with all of the details, but how trusted/reliable are online pitch rate calculators? I've never under-pitched as far as I know and I only shake my 1 liter starters by hand.

I will be doing a 1L starter with 4 month old or so vial of yeast. The online calculator calls for 230 billion cells for a 5.5 gallon 1.067 beer. Based on my entry, I only have 54 billion cells.


Offline JT

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 11:29:54 PM »
What yeast?

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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 12:03:28 AM »
WLP002

Offline 69franx

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 12:10:59 AM »
I think you should think about a 2L starter Justin. Older yeast can be finicky
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 12:18:53 AM »
I think you should think about a 2L starter Justin. Older yeast can be finicky

I've always done ~ a 2L starter I believe. The 2 quarts of water plus 5 ounces of DME equates to 1.89 liters of water. Am I thinking of this correctly?

Offline JT

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2015, 04:01:01 AM »
I think you should think about a 2L starter Justin. Older yeast can be finicky

I've always done ~ a 2L starter I believe. The 2 quarts of water plus 5 ounces of DME equates to 1.89 liters of water. Am I thinking of this correctly?
You're over-thinking it correctly.    But have you accounted for boil off?

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 10:16:45 AM »
I don't trust the online calcs for guessing yeast vitality. The best way to do that is by feel. If the starter takes off pretty quickly you are probably good to go. If it takes a long time you may want to step it up another time. If you aren't doing cell counts, and I think it would be arguably silly to do such at the homebrew level, then you really just need to use experience and feel.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 11:46:14 AM »
I don't trust the online calcs for guessing yeast vitality. The best way to do that is by feel. If the starter takes off pretty quickly you are probably good to go. If it takes a long time you may want to step it up another time. If you aren't doing cell counts, and I think it would be arguably silly to do such at the homebrew level, then you really just need to use experience and feel.

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 12:06:55 PM »
calcs are just a gauge or best guess considering variables. the advice to watch and observe the starter is best approach, especially older yeast. FWIW, i have been happy with smaller or projected under pitch with english yeast.
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 12:28:12 PM »
I've been using this one lately and seem to be fine with pitching rates:
http://www.yeastcalculator.com/

Also, I use the Kai stir plate settings because it gives me more yeast than Jamil's  ;)
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 03:07:59 PM »
I don't trust the online calcs for guessing yeast vitality. The best way to do that is by feel. If the starter takes off pretty quickly you are probably good to go. If it takes a long time you may want to step it up another time. If you aren't doing cell counts, and I think it would be arguably silly to do such at the homebrew level, then you really just need to use experience and feel.

This

Agreed.  And I would also point out that Mark (S. cerevisiae, and a man who clearly knows a lot about yeast) frequently uses the "nuclear bomb" analogy in that close is good enough.  Your cell count (which you don't really know anyway) only needs to be in the ballpark.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2015, 05:49:26 PM »
Also, I use the Kai stir plate settings because it gives me more yeast than Jamil's  ;)

Yes, surprisingly considerably more....

Offline duboman

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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2015, 09:22:39 PM »
http://www.yeastcalc.co/pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator#.UzwRD_k7um4

I always use this site as a guide and use Kai's stir plate option as well. I have read that Kai has done a lot more actual research using real world, home brew methods to account for his results and along with this I use my own experiences and observations with the yeast.

I would go with a 2L starter as well and should be pretty close to what you need assuming it takes off well for you and you get a nice cake, if not, step it up again.
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Re: Pitch Rates
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2015, 09:37:01 PM »
Especially with something as flocculant as 002, you can get at least a rough double-check of the calculator based on mass or volume. Give it a couple days in the fridge to settle out the solids, then pour off as much liquid as possible and measure. If it's really thick slurry, figure 3 billion cells per mL; if it's runny but pours like a liquid 2 billion/mL; if it pours like water 1 billion/mL. You'll certainly be within 50% of your actual cell count, likely much closer.
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