Author Topic: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio  (Read 1555 times)

Online Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Earlier this week James and I recorded an interview about one of my favorite topics: Decoction.

You can find it here http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

I have not listened to it. I hope I was able to convey a lot of what I have learned about decoction and could have gone on and on. I also sent James a decocted and a non-decocted beer to compare on the show.

I totally forgot to mention my decoction video's on YouTube though. Oh well.

Kai


Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3157
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2010, 07:14:32 PM »
Good stuff, Kai. I haven't listened yet (saving it for the car tomorrow) but I'm looking forward to it.

I know what you mean about trying to fit it all in. James is a really good interviewer and keeps things moving, but both times there was a lot I realized I just hadn't gotten to afterward.

ETA: Not that I didn't trust your advice before, but the accent really sells it. ;)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 10:24:37 AM by a10t2 »
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
http://seanterrill.com/category/brewing/

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8678
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 08:50:08 PM »
Really nice interview Kai!

Very informative.

Can I get your autograph?
Ron Price

Online Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2010, 07:29:35 AM »
While I wanted to make sure that this becomes a show about decoction and how to do them most efficiently and not so much a decoction show about why not to do a decoction, I had to touch on the controversial subject of “what difference does it make”.  The beers I sent James tasted pretty much the same and I too was not able to distinguish them at home in blind tasting. My take on it is, don’t bother with it if you need to streamline your process to minimize the time you spend brewing so you can enter more beers in a competition. The latter will increase your chances of winning more than decocting a beer. But if you enjoy the all grain brewing process and would like to know more about different ways of mashing decoction mashing is definitely for you and worth its time. And with the suggestion of only simmering the decoction in a lidded pot the amount of work necessary is much less.

While that doesn’t show that decoction doesn’t make a difference and is thus useless it shows that the changes caused by decoction are small and difficult to detect. Even a number of professional German brewer’s, to whom I spoke about that, agree with that.

But since many sources actually agree that there is a difference it may just come down to training ones palate and thus I’ll keep continuing with brewing decoction side-by-sides.

Kai

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2010, 07:44:01 AM »
Thanks Kai, I set up my brewstand so I could either use my cooler for a MT or a pot with burner under it to step mash... is there much difference in step mashing?  And probably a dumb question but does it compare to pulling a decoction?  I know I can go through my books again but I'm lazy at the moment.  ;D  :-[

Offline dmtaylor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2010, 07:48:56 AM »
and not so much a decoction show about why not to do a decoction

Well said, my friend.  Hear hear.   :)
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2010, 08:39:05 AM »
I also sent James a decocted and a non-decocted beer to compare on the show.

Did you tell him which was which?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Online Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2010, 09:18:41 AM »
Did you tell him which was which?

After he made a guess and guessed wrong I told him which was which.

I can bring these beers to the AHA conference. Which brings up the interesting point of having to pay for checked luggage just because I cannot take beer in my carry-on. But I planned to do that anyway.

Kai

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2010, 10:30:40 AM »
Did you tell him which was which?

After he made a guess and guessed wrong I told him which was which.

You know me...this is music to my ears!

I can bring these beers to the AHA conference. Which brings up the interesting point of having to pay for checked luggage just because I cannot take beer in my carry-on. But I planned to do that anyway.

Kai

FWIW, I just always go ahead and check the baggage, even with the fee.  Fighting for overhead storage space is just a hassle I don't need.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline hokerer

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2634
  • Manassas, VA
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2010, 01:00:57 PM »
Fighting for overhead storage space is just a hassle I don't need.

+1.  I like whatever airline it was that started charging for stuff needing to go in the overhead.  In fact, I'd just as soon they remove the overheads entirely.  If it won't fit under the seat, check it.
Joe

Online Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2010, 03:42:51 PM »
Did you tell him which was which?

After he made a guess and guessed wrong I told him which was which.

You know me...this is music to my ears!

Wait until I figure out how to make decoction more perceivable ;)



Quote
FWIW, I just always go ahead and check the baggage, even with the fee.  Fighting for overhead storage space is just a hassle I don't need.

I just check large carry-on at the time of boarding.


Offline bfogt

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2010, 09:01:47 PM »
Kai, I think decoction can make a larger difference in styles that aren't usually talked about as decocted but have a history dating to a time that they would have been.  I have had great comments about a Bierre de Garde that I triple decoct as well as a BPA.  Even with my stouts, I usually do some decoction just to build a richer mouth experience without using more caramel malt. 

It's a good tool to have, though.  Regular practice makes it possible to adjust temperature "quickly" when you're brewing a big beer, losing a lot of heat or experiencing a stuck mash and need to adjust without adding more water.  Sometimes I do it to make friends think it take a lot more work than they might otherwise.  They appreciate my beer more that way.  But it's always good to be able to have one more technique in your tool belt when things get out of whack.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 04:46:51 PM by bfogt »

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 09:14:49 AM »
Wait until I figure out how to make decoction more perceivable ;)

Ya know, I'd actually LOVE that!  I'd have no problem doing a decoction if I knew it was going to make a perceptibly better beer.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline concernedphil

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 10:12:22 AM »
My question does not have much to do with the interview but may have lot to do with decoction. I am hoping Kai maybe able to help me. I got a sack of Best Malz Pilsen malt from my local brew pub. Using it first time, doing single temp mash , 150 F. I got very low efficiency, around 70%, as compare to 85% I normally get with 2 row malt. Wort  looked quite cloudy as well, even when iodine test showed conversion. Also, I had ton of protein on the top of the wort, before the boil.   I have looked up the spec sheet available from bestmalz.de:

http://www.bestmalz.de/en/malt/malt-type-pilsner-malt.htm

But I don’t know enough to tell much about the malt from the sheet. Is this under modified malt and will I need to do decoction mash, or at last step mash to get decent efficiency and break down the starches, protein? Has anyone used the malt? Thanks.

Phil

Online Kaiser

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Imperial Brewing Geek
    • View Profile
    • braukaiser.com
Re: My decoction interview with James from Basic Brewing Radio
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 10:28:37 AM »
Is this under modified malt and will I need to do decoction mash, or at last step mash to get decent efficiency and break down the starches, protein? Has anyone used the malt?

I have used that type of malt in the past and don't think it is undermodified. The soluble nitrogen ratio given in the analysis has a pretty wide spread.

I don't think you need a decoction mash to get good efficiency. With pils malt I wonder how your mash pH was. Maybe that was your culprit.

Kai