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Author Topic: Kolsch Guidance  (Read 13382 times)

Offline brewday

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2015, 01:01:48 pm »
What strain is WLP029?

I have been advised against using that in an Alt but it sounds like 2565 could be a good solution for my Kolsch and Alt...

2565 does make a good alt.

dfhar

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2015, 01:19:09 pm »
You will love the 2565 strain.  Big top cropper though so be aware!

Wyeast 2565 is allegedly Weihenstephan W-165.  W-165 is actually an altbier strain.

Quote
Dark Beers: Strain W 148 , W 165 and W 184

These strains are mainly used in the production of top fermenting dark beers. They can also be classed as interesting for ale variations. They are used for higher fermentation temperatures and can also be used without further trub removal at cooler temperatures.

A longer period of leaving the brew with the yeast should be avoided due to the fact that a yeasty character is to be expected. The yeast strain W165 is to be recommended as the best appropriate yeast for top fermenting dark beers.

The Weihenstephan Kolsch strain is W-177.

Quote
Kölsch yeasts: Strain W 177

This is the classical strain used for the production of Kölsch beers, with a light fruity estery taste and character with lower Amyl-alcohol contents. Similar to the alt beer yeasts this yeast strain can be fermented with high or low temperatures.

The Diacetyle degradation is, especially by higher temperatures than 20 °C as good as complete. Therefore a very clean and very pure beer is to be expected.

I am not aware of a single propagator in the U.S. that holds W-177 in its collection.  I inquired about importing W-177 on slant from Hefebank Weihenstephan, but the combined culture and shipping costs were ridiculous, which is saying something because I usually spend a c-note or more on a culture.   For example, I recently spent £115 (~$180.00) acquiring a strain from the NCYC that I plan to study in the fall.  The price that I was quoted by Hefebank Weihenstephan for W-177 dwarfed that figure.  Maybe I can start a crowdfunding effort to bring W-177 into the country? :)

BSI supposedly has W-177, among other interesting things like Augustiner, Ettal, and Weltenburg lager yeasts, to name just a few. BSI doesn't sell to homebrewers, though, but if you have a friend in the business you could ask them really nicely to order some...  ;D

http://www.brewingscience.com/PDF/prodlist/BSI_Yeast_Descriptions_Guide.pdf

I have been extremely happy with my results from WLP029, but it would be interesting to know how W-177 compares. Does anybody have a clue as to which of the breweries in Cologne might use the W-177 strain?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 01:25:26 pm by dfhar »

narvin

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2015, 05:58:12 pm »
Maybe I can start a crowdfunding effort to bring W-177 into the country? :)

Now that's an idea.  Forum yeast of the month club?

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2015, 08:02:56 am »

BSI supposedly has W-177, among other interesting things like Augustiner, Ettal, and Weltenburg lager yeasts, to name just a few. BSI doesn't sell to homebrewers, though, but if you have a friend in the business you could ask them really nicely to order some...  ;D

http://www.brewingscience.com/PDF/prodlist/BSI_Yeast_Descriptions_Guide.pdf

I have been extremely happy with my results from WLP029, but it would be interesting to know how W-177 compares. Does anybody have a clue as to which of the breweries in Cologne might use the W-177 strain?
[/quote]

There is a very high possibility i can get this yeast from brewing science. My local brewery/buddy orders through them for all his yeast

Offline quattlebaum

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2015, 03:48:07 pm »
I can't believe I have never brewed this style!  Thank you for the feedback/guidance. I called it my twisted kolsch.  I really dig the mandarina Bavaria hop in this. It reminds me of my childhood afternoons hanging out in Florida gorging on tangerines ruining my dinner. It's a subtle tangerine/citrus character. Color didn't turn out to dark either with 70% kolsch malt and 30% bestmatz pils.  100% RO water. OG 1.048 FG 1.009. No sparge 90 min boil. Hersbrucker 4.3aa at 60min for 18.9 Ibu, mandarina Bavaria 7.3aa at 15 min for 4.2ibus and mandarina Bavaria 7.3aa 10 min whirlpool for 2 ibus. Wyeast 2565 at 60F. Boil PH 5.4 room temp. Finished beer PH 4.1 room temp, lower than I expected fro, this strain but nice. Still a bit young brewed 7/11 but I couldn't help myself. Sorry about condensation its pretty clear


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Offline johnnyb

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2015, 04:43:25 pm »
Looks good!


Offline brewday

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Re: Kolsh Guidance
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2015, 03:01:43 pm »
I would be careful using the kolsch malt. It is very dark. In think you are better off using 100% pils malt. I'm not sure how the brewers in Cologne use the Kolsch malt but they must be blending it.


Good information, thanks.  I bought a sac of Schill Kolsch malt and brewed it as a SMASH beer and in various ratios with pilsner malt.  I don't think the 100% came out too dark, maybe a touch on the gold spectrum.  I also entered it into two competitions and the judges all called it "straw blond", but everyone calls a Koslch straw blond, so I just take it with a grain of salt.  I personally find the Kolsch malt to be like Vienna (3.5L high-kilned german malt), and both a 2:1 and 3:1 pilsner:vienna grist make a tasty Kolsch.

Agreed on the Kölsch malt being similar to Vienna, and that's how I've approached using it.  To me it brings a nice subtle biscuit quality.  I've been happy keeping it in the 7-8% range.

Offline santoch

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2015, 09:57:45 pm »
Out of curiosity, I wonder if Dan Gordon might have access to W177.
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Offline swampale

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2015, 04:22:24 am »
Here is my Kolsch recipe.
92% Pils malt
8% Munich ( 6 L )
Tettnanger - 60 min addition - 23 ibu
Wyeast 2565
75% RO - 25% dechlorinated tap water

I tried WLP029 but didn't like it. 7 days @ 59 F then @ 64 F until done. Takes over 7 days to clear with gelatin, I assume it is the yeast. To me, it is a toss up between a Kolsch and a Pils. Love them both.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2015, 05:56:05 am »
I find it interesting that you guys are having trouble with WLP029 flocculating. I brewed 11g of Kolsch and split it between WLP029 and WY2565. The WLP029 was dropped clear at 68F and 11 days in the fermenter but the WY2565 was (and is) still quite cloudy.

WLP029:


WY2565:


Kegging these tonight.

Edit: fixed pics.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 07:09:16 pm by AmandaK »
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2015, 12:14:41 pm »
Sorry Amanda, the pics didn't post.  But I too have experienced the same clearing rate with 2565.  Even with gelatin and extended cold conditioning, it still takes a long time to get crystal clear.  But man, I love it!

Offline brewday

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2015, 04:31:21 pm »
For me 2565 clears in about a week.  Of course I'm usually into the top half of the keg by then...

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2015, 07:11:01 pm »
Fixed the pics. Idk what happened there.

Finally xferred these guys into kegs. The WLP029 is dang near crystal clear and the WY2565 is a bit hazy.


Left to right: WLP029, WY2565, then a Festbier I'm not quite happy with yet (unrelated).
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Offline scarecrow

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2015, 07:48:58 pm »
I did a2565 kolsch earlier this summer and after primary and sitting in the fridge it was a bit hazy for a month or two. Very popular new though all my friends liked it very much. By the end of 2nd month in the keg it cleared up and was perfect.

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch Guidance
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2015, 05:03:34 am »
Here's wlp029 with a bit of gelatin as fining to drop clear after about 1 week aging. Make sure you mix the finings well no matter what you use.