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Author Topic: Yeast shipped warm.  (Read 7784 times)

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2015, 06:05:41 pm »
I'm not a fan of US-05, which is why I usually use liquid yeast. I've just never cared for the beers I've made with US-05 as much as the ones made with the liquid "version" of that strain. That being said, I've got a batch made with S-04 that's getting kegged this weekend, we'll see how that one turns out.

I too do not care for US-05.  Aerobic propagation and fluidized bed drying are not kind to that strain.  In my humble opinion, S-04 is the most liquid culture-like dry yeast culture available to home brewers.

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The other issue with using dry yeast is that the beers I prefer to brew aren't always possible to make with dry yeasts.

What do you brew?
 
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Mark, what is your max recommended storage time for reused yeast kept under beer in the fridge?

I would say that four months is a good rule of thumb to adopt as a crop management practice.  However, most strains will remain viable for up to a year or more under beer if stored cold.  Granted, there will not be many viable cells left in the culture.   A crop can be directly pitched for about three to four weeks.  I have had success direct pitching crops that were older than a month, but it is not something that I recommend.  Crops that are older than a month should be fed and proofed before being pitched.


Offline coolman26

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2015, 10:03:31 pm »
What about the viability of a Wlp tube?  I bought some yeast when my local HB store went out of business.  It was 036 and 029 and manufacture date is early Feb.  I went to run the calculator and it said 0 viability.  I know there are enough cells to grow to a pitchable amount.  How small and what gravity do you use to bring an old tube to life? 
Jeff B

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2015, 10:15:21 am »
Most of the papers that I have read have stated that viability tends to decline rapidly after 120 days.   At 120 days, the viable cell count found in most cultures will be roughly 1/4th of the viable cell count at the time that the yeast was harvested.  My own experience with yeast management tends to agree with this information. 

If one reads the fine print on a White Labs vial, it states that the culture is basically guaranteed for 4 months from the production date.  That number was not pulled out of thin air.  It agrees with what I have posted above.  Now, is a White Labs vial bad after 120 days?  No, it's just that the cell count is down to around 15 to 25 billion cells, which is an order of magnitude away from the cell count necessary to pitch a 5-gallon batch of wort, and White Labs has always positioned their cultures as "ready to pitch."  I often claim that a yeast culture is kind of like a nuclear weapon in that one only needs to be close for it to work correctly.  An order of magnitude is not close, which means that the value of making a starter increases with respect to the distance between the production date and the current date.  I currently have a batch fermenting that was pitched with a starter that was inoculated with a vial of WLP022 (Jan/Feb seasonal).  The batch started in less than 12 hours.

Offline flbrewer

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2015, 10:21:53 am »
FWIW, I tend to order yeast from More Beer and always order 2 ice packs. They are always melted and warm from the two day transit. I just figure it kept it cold longer than without. I think I'll stick to dry yeast during the summer months for now.

Offline coolman26

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2015, 10:46:00 am »
Most of the papers that I have read have stated that viability tends to decline rapidly after 120 days.   At 120 days, the viable cell count found in most cultures will be roughly 1/4th of the viable cell count at the time that the yeast was harvested.  My own experience with yeast management tends to agree with this information. 

If one reads the fine print on a White Labs vial, it states that the culture is basically guaranteed for 4 months from the production date.  That number was not pulled out of thin air.  It agrees with what I have posted above.  Now, is a White Labs vial bad after 120 days?  No, it's just that the cell count is down to around 15 to 25 billion cells, which is an order of magnitude away from the cell count necessary to pitch a 5-gallon batch of wort, and White Labs has always positioned their cultures as "ready to pitch."  I often claim that a yeast culture is kind of like a nuclear weapon in that one only needs to be close for it to work correctly.  An order of magnitude is not close, which means that the value of making a starter increases with respect to the distance between the production date and the current date.  I currently have a batch fermenting that was pitched with a starter that was inoculated with a vial of WLP022 (Jan/Feb seasonal).  The batch started in less than 12 hours.
Thanks for the information.  I've learned a lot from you.  When making a starter with older yeast, I've read the wort gravity should be lower than my normal 1.040.  Is this true? 
Jeff B

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2015, 04:07:40 pm »
When making a starter with older yeast, I've read the wort gravity should be lower than my normal 1.040.  Is this true?

Technically, yes, the cells in an older culture benefit from lower osmotic pressure.  However, there is a tradeoff in that a lower gravity starter has less carbon available for growth; therefore, starting with a lower gravity often means stepping the starter.   A four month old White Labs culture is not that old in the grand scheme of things; therefore, I would not sweat it.   

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2015, 05:35:38 pm »
Quote
The other issue with using dry yeast is that the beers I prefer to brew aren't always possible to make with dry yeasts.

What do you brew?
 

Summer favorites that I don't think I can do with dry yeast are hefewiezen, (Wyeast 3068) Patersbier (Wyeast 3787) and belgian wits (Wyeast 3944)
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2015, 07:15:15 pm »
Summer favorites that I don't think I can do with dry yeast are hefewiezen, (Wyeast 3068) Patersbier (Wyeast 3787) and belgian wits (Wyeast 3944)

Wyeast 3068 is easy.  That's W-68, which is available in dry form as Fermentis Safbrew WB-06.  The other two are not as easy to substitute.  Luckily, I am not a fan of phenolic yeast strains.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2015, 04:35:23 am »
If S-04 works out, I may just save those other beers for when I can get to the LHBS, or just order them online before it gets warm and wake them up with a good starter.

Been wondering about experimenting with British yeast in a beer aiming to be a summer quencher...looks like I'm getting steered down that path.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline sakarisstora

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Re: Yeast shipped warm.
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2015, 07:47:41 pm »
I sometimes get surprised by the heat tolerance of liquid yeasts.
I have twice received oversea shipping of Wyeast smackpacs ( a Wit yeast and a Burton-ish strain) without cooling, and I have not noticed any problems. Pitched it without a starter in two 2.5g batches.

Some weeks ago, i forgot two White Labs (Brett Brux Trois Vrai. and Belgian Saison III )vials in room temperature for a week after traveling with them in my backpack at 80f. Both of them were alive and kicking. I put them in the refrigerator and made a starter before I used them.  :)
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