Author Topic: malt character for pale ale  (Read 1804 times)

Offline gman23

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malt character for pale ale
« on: July 08, 2015, 04:25:49 PM »
Working on a decent grain bill for my APA that I keep constant and just switch out the hops with varieties I have never tried.

This was my first grain bill:
73% pilsner
20% munich I (6L)
7% caramunich I

It was good but overly malty and darker than I expected. I do like a pale ale with some malt character but the malt character seemed to cover the hops more than I would like. There was also a biscuity/nutty character that was nice and provided some uniqueness. As the next step, I am thinking of changing it to this:

80% pilsner
15% munich
5% caramunich

Any feedback on that? It seems to get me closer to what I want without going too far in the other direction.

Hops are
Magnum 60 min / Simcoe FWH for ~35 IBUs?
1 oz Azacca / 1 oz El Dorado - hop stand starting at 170F for 30 min
1 oz Azacca / 1 oz El Dorado - dry hop

Calculated IBUs are somewhere around 48 however that is probably not too accurate considering my settings for IBUs contributed from hop stand is just a guess...
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 04:33:02 PM »
Working on a decent grain bill for my APA that I keep constant and just switch out the hops with varieties I have never tried.

This was my first grain bill:
73% pilsner
20% munich I (6L)
7% caramunich I

It was good but overly malty and darker than I expected. I do like a pale ale with some malt character but the malt character seemed to cover the hops more than I would like. There was also a biscuity/nutty character that was nice and provided some uniqueness. As the next step, I am thinking of changing it to this:

80% pilsner
15% munich
5% caramunich

Any feedback on that? It seems to get me closer to what I want without going too far in the other direction.

Hops are
Magnum 60 min / Simcoe FWH for ~35 IBUs?
1 oz Azacca / 1 oz El Dorado - hop stand starting at 170F for 30 min
1 oz Azacca / 1 oz El Dorado - dry hop

Calculated IBUs are somewhere around 48 however that is probably not too accurate considering my settings for IBUs contributed from hop stand is just a guess...


Looks good to me! I've done similar many times. Those IBUs may calculate to 48 but it won't taste like it with the late hopping all done via hopstand (I do the same for hoppy styles). And Azacca are great in APA btw.
Jon H.

Offline gman23

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 04:39:05 PM »
Awesome. Thanks!

My first version of this beer featured Jarrylo and Zythos blend which was very nice but underwhelming. A lot of that has to do with the amounts but the malt character didn't help either. I ended up throwing a combo of Simcoe, Amarillo, and Cascade into the keg which helped.

My only other thought would be to switch out the original amount of Munich for Vienna. I am brewing this in the next couple of days so I think I will just go with the reduced Munich amount.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 04:46:09 PM »
Awesome. Thanks!

My first version of this beer featured Jarrylo and Zythos blend which was very nice but underwhelming. A lot of that has to do with the amounts but the malt character didn't help either. I ended up throwing a combo of Simcoe, Amarillo, and Cascade into the keg which helped.

My only other thought would be to switch out the original amount of Munich for Vienna. I am brewing this in the next couple of days so I think I will just go with the reduced Munich amount.

Remember too that gypsum will help dry out a beer that could seem overly malty (assuming you don't already use it). 15% Munich isn't too much for APA by any means. Gypsum would dry out the finish and bring the hops to the forefront. I like ~ 200ppm sulfate from gypsum in APA FWIW.
Jon H.

Offline gman23

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 04:48:19 PM »
I think the first version had 217 ppm sulfate so we are good there.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline dannyjed

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 05:00:59 PM »
You guys like Azacca? I tried them in an IPA and thought they were bland. They seemed to smell citrusy when I added them to the boil, but when I tasted the final beer they were not citrusy and more like earthy, herbal type of character. I also didn't get much aroma from them when dry hopped. I thought they might be nice in an amber or brown ale.
Dan Chisholm

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 05:06:43 PM »
You guys like Azacca? I tried them in an IPA and thought they were bland. They seemed to smell citrusy when I added them to the boil, but when I tasted the final beer they were not citrusy and more like earthy, herbal type of character. I also didn't get much aroma from them when dry hopped. I thought they might be nice in an amber or brown ale.

I loved the Azacca I bought. They were very peach and mango with some citrus. The dry hop aroma held up nicely, too. This was in a hoppy pale ale and they overpowered the Cascade pretty easily.

EDIT -These definitely weren't herbal. I wonder if they shipped you the wrong hops. It's happened to me a few times.
Jon H.

Offline dannyjed

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 05:08:41 PM »
You guys like Azacca? I tried them in an IPA and thought they were bland. They seemed to smell citrusy when I added them to the boil, but when I tasted the final beer they were not citrusy and more like earthy, herbal type of character. I also didn't get much aroma from them when dry hopped. I thought they might be nice in an amber or brown ale.

I loved the Azacca I bought. They were very peach and mango with some citrus. The dry hop aroma held up nicely, too. This was in a hoppy pale ale and they overpowered the Cascade pretty easily.
I still have some in the freezer and maybe I should give them another shot.
Dan Chisholm

Offline gman23

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 05:32:39 PM »
I am excited to give them a shot although I am not sure how they will work with the El Dorado. I was disappointed by Jarrylo so hoping to get more out of the Azacca.

I should probably just be doing single hopped beers...
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline curtism1234

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 05:34:22 PM »
My only other thought would be to switch out the original amount of Munich for Vienna. I am brewing this in the next couple of days so I think I will just go with the reduced Munich amount.

I was thinking vienna as well

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 05:36:29 PM »
I am excited to give them a shot although I am not sure how they will work with the El Dorado. I was disappointed by Jarrylo so hoping to get more out of the Azacca.

I should probably just be doing single hopped beers...

They'll work fine, but El Dorado is stronger. To have them give equal aroma and flavor you'd need to back off on the El Dorado or up the Azacca a little. But at 50/50 it'll still be good.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 06:01:21 PM »
My only other thought would be to switch out the original amount of Munich for Vienna. I am brewing this in the next couple of days so I think I will just go with the reduced Munich amount.

I was thinking vienna as well

You could also blend some base malts (i.e. pilsner and pale ale malt) to make up that extra oomph you are looking for.

Offline riceral

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2015, 12:37:44 AM »
You guys like Azacca? I tried them in an IPA and thought they were bland. They seemed to smell citrusy when I added them to the boil, but when I tasted the final beer they were not citrusy and more like earthy, herbal type of character. I also didn't get much aroma from them when dry hopped. I thought they might be nice in an amber or brown ale.

I loved the Azacca I bought. They were very peach and mango with some citrus. The dry hop aroma held up nicely, too. This was in a hoppy pale ale and they overpowered the Cascade pretty easily.

EDIT -These definitely weren't herbal. I wonder if they shipped you the wrong hops. It's happened to me a few times.

I hope you're right Jon.

I have a saison using Azacca and tonight added 1 1/2 ounces Azacca for dry hopping. Had a nice aroma when boiling and hoping that carries through to the finished beer. I also thought the aroma was citrusy, some orange and some grapefruit. I didn't get the mango and pineapple some say they smell.

I'll find out in 2-3 weeks.

Ralph R.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2015, 12:45:25 AM »
I have a saison using Azacca and tonight added 1 1/2 ounces Azacca for dry hopping. Had a nice aroma when boiling and hoping that carries through to the finished beer. I also thought the aroma was citrusy, some orange and some grapefruit. I didn't get the mango and pineapple some say they smell.

I'll find out in 2-3 weeks.



I'll be curious to see what you think. Nobody's gonna confuse it for having the intensity of Citra, but I think it's a nice mid AA range hop.
Jon H.

Offline troybinso

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Re: malt character for pale ale
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2015, 03:38:56 AM »
Your malt bill seems pretty weird for a APA. I would suggest an American Pale Ale malt or standard 2-row instead of the Pilsner. Then you can drop the Munich way down.