Author Topic: Imperial?  (Read 1610 times)

Offline yugamrap

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 12:49:14 PM »
Two words. . . jumbo shrimp.   ;)

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Offline The Professor

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2010, 03:10:23 PM »
I have heard a couple of "'Imperial Milds" lately and laugh at the oxymoron that it is.

Other than the fact that the term "Imperial" itself has become something of a cliche these days,  the fact is that historically the term "mild" had nothing whatsoever to do with the strength of the brew (and according to more than one researcher, some of the original 'milds' didn't even have reduced hop rates). 
"Mild" meant only that the beer wasn't tart from extended age.
That means that all my beers are "Milds"  ;D ;D ;D

Ha!  For the most part and with only a couple exceptions, mine too apparently.
Basically, and historically speaking, your probably not far wrong about that. Just serves to further illustrate that the recent phenomenon of pigeonholing beers into SO many new so called "styles" has really become something of a joke. 
Seems these days, if  one extra hop cone gets added to an existing style everyone wants to make it a new "style".

In any case, I still say that "Imperial" and "Extreme" have become nothing more than tired marketing gimmickry.  I know that I'm not alone in that feeling, too.
 
In the end, it's BEER.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2010, 03:23:21 PM »
I have heard a couple of "'Imperial Milds" lately and laugh at the oxymoron that it is.

Other than the fact that the term "Imperial" itself has become something of a cliche these days,  the fact is that historically the term "mild" had nothing whatsoever to do with the strength of the brew (and according to more than one researcher, some of the original 'milds' didn't even have reduced hop rates).  
"Mild" meant only that the beer wasn't tart from extended age.
That means that all my beers are "Milds"  ;D ;D ;D

Ha!  For the most part and with only a couple exceptions, mine too apparently.
Basically, and historically speaking, your probably not far wrong about that. Just serves to further illustrate that the recent phenomenon of pigeonholing beers into SO many new so called "styles" has really become something of a joke.  
Seems these days, if  one extra hop cone gets added to an existing style everyone wants to make it a new "style".

In any case, I still say that "Imperial" and "Extreme" have become nothing more than tired marketing gimmickry.  I know that I'm not alone in that feeling, too.
 
In the end, it's BEER.

Small breweries need all the tools they can use to compete against the monsters churning out yellow beer. "tired marketing gimmickry"? How about "Triple Hopped" or "Cold Filtered"? Or Bud Lime or Bud Wheat? Those are gimmicks, much mroe powerful gimmicks than "Imperial" sized brews. I agree, however, that sometimes the "Imperial" nomenclature is taken too far. But, if it helps the small, struggling brtewer to sell more beer ... well then, more power to 'em.

Also, I pride myself in very often meshing or skewing styles. however, I think that learning styles makes one a much, much better brewer as opposed to those who do not. I also have an art degree. Would we not agree that there are "styles" in art? In the end, it is just art. But the educated know what art "styles" are and how those "styles" evolved. You could make the same argument for music. Is all music "just music"? Or is Jazz a style? Is "classical" the same as "hip hop"? Of course not. Art has differences that define style. And, IMO, beer is art. 8)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 03:36:35 PM by majorvices »
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2010, 07:11:49 PM »
Ok so I think we've come to the chicken and egg part of the thread. Is it better that you brew a great beer and then stick it into a style; or pick a style and try to brew within those guidelines?
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2010, 07:23:40 PM »
Which ever. Point is that style is a categorization and it is appropriate for any art form. I consider beer an art form. I see no problem with styles guidelines. I also see no problem in breaking style guidelines. If someone wants to "super size" a style and call it "imperial" ... by all means. Have at it. I may be chuckling right along side of professor, but if it is a good beer I'll drink it up! ;)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:25:47 PM by majorvices »
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Offline mnstorm99

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2010, 05:07:35 AM »
It is infact the style nazis that have created the problem that they complain about, right?  Most craft brewers out there would probably just rather make good beer, but there is always the group out there that needs to know what "style" the beer is.  Surly Furious may be listed as an IPA, but I don't think that beer will ever win an award for an IPA since it doesn't fit in the guidelines.  Imperial Milds may sound like a gimmick to me, but if it is good beer I wouldn't care otherwise.

I am not a style nazi, I do not enter competitions for one reason, I brew the beer I like.  I name my beers based on styles, but they are loose interpretations and I don't name my beers.
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Peach/Raspberry Ale 4.5%/18IBU (6/6/10)
Golden Promise IPA (Keg #2) - 5.8%/73IBU (7/3/10)
Jason's Ball & Chain - 6.4%/63IBU (7/17/10)
All His Merry Men - 4.9%/23IBU (8/1/10)
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2010, 05:20:53 AM »
I'm certainly not a style Nazi but I think styles have there place and it is silly to disregard them. I can see where people want the freedom to brew and drink what they want, and there is nothing wrong with that. But, the human brain tends to categorize things going all the way back to Aristotle and certainly even further. Its not a bad thing to determine that groups of beers share characteristics. I do think that beer will continue to evolve and break styles. That is what art does.

The music analogy might be the best way to illustrate this. On your iPod do you put all your music in one play list? If so, how do you ever find what you want to listen to depending on what mood you are in?
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2010, 06:04:15 AM »
Call it what you want.

Who cares what you call it. When it comes time to nail it down from a style standpoint then and only then one must define it because there are standards to measure it against. I agree major that craft brewing is an art like music. Defining a beer is one thing while crafting a beer is another. I am more of a style nazi, but I have fellow brewers who are like the Evil Knievel's of brewing and make great beer. I admire that.

I like to compete...so for me it's all about style but that's just me. Again...my hat's off to the daredevil's and artists out there.
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2010, 07:00:17 AM »
Call it what you want.

Who cares what you call it.

So long as when I buy your commercial beer I don't get a golden, hazy beer pouring out of a black bottle saying STOUT.
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2010, 07:16:49 AM »
Call it what you want.

Who cares what you call it.

So long as when I buy your commercial beer I don't get a golden, hazy beer pouring out of a black bottle saying STOUT.

Yeah. I remember several years ago trying "JD Dundee's Honey BROWN"... the beer wasn't BROWN at all!
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2010, 08:15:31 AM »
Call it what you want.

Who cares what you call it.

So long as when I buy your commercial beer I don't get a golden, hazy beer pouring out of a black bottle saying STOUT.

+1
Ron Price

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Re: Imperial?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2010, 11:53:27 AM »
That's the point exactly and those that think they're "cool" referring to folks as "style nazis" just really don't get it.  When your in your favorite bottle shop or at a brewfest or wherever, it's undeniably helpful to be able to have some idea as to what a particular beer might be like in order to prioritize your tasting/drinking.  As much as we might like it to be, "try them all" isn't usually a particularly practical option :)
Joe