Author Topic: Lacto. Starter  (Read 712 times)

Offline flbrewer

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Lacto. Starter
« on: July 09, 2015, 01:16:50 PM »
What would be the difference is doing a lacto starter with raw grain compared to pitching a vial of lacto in the starter instead?

Secondly, how important is an airlock on this type of starter compared to a piece of tight foil over it like I normally use for traditional starters?

Offline dkfick

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 05:50:10 PM »
The main difference between using raw grains and a culture are that the raw grains have things besides lacto on them.  There are things you can do to your starter to encourage lacto growth over the 'other' items in there... lower the pH of your starter wort to < 4.5, keep the temp around 105F, keep o2 out.

The keeping o2 out is directly related to your airlock/foil question.  Lacto starter use airlock.
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 06:53:31 PM »
Just a follow up question on my lacto starter. I am starting to see signs of activity after about 24 hours at around 110 degrees or so. Should I cold crash this starter like I would with a traditional yeast starter?
Secondly, what is this "dusty lacto" I keep reading about?

Offline dkfick

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2015, 03:10:54 AM »
No don't child crash it. It won't flocc out like yeast.

Not sure on the dusty lacto... Maybe just something about how it can often just look cloudy add the only signs it's active.
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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
Secondly, what is this "dusty lacto" I keep reading about?

Dusty and powdery are terms that are often used to describe non-flocculent cultures.  Lactobaccillus will eventually sediment.  However, it takes longer to sediment because most bacteria are non-flocculent.  Flocculation is a phenomenon where cells clump together into flocs at some point in a fermentation.   Flocs sediment faster than individual cells, so people tend to confuse the terms.

Flocculation = cells clump together
Sedimentation = cells fall out of suspension


Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 09:31:16 AM »
Secondly, what is this "dusty lacto" I keep reading about?

Dusty and powdery are terms that are often used to describe non-flocculent cultures.  Lactobaccillus will eventually sediment.  However, it takes longer to sediment because most bacteria are non-flocculent.  Flocculation is a phenomenon where cells clump together into flocs at some point in a fermentation.   Flocs sediment faster than individual cells, so people tend to confuse the terms.

Flocculation = cells clump together
Sedimentation = cells fall out of suspension
Mark,
Is my understanding correct? Hypothetically, cells could floculate but not sediment and others could sediment but not floculate? Meaning, floculation doesn't have to equate to better sedimentation.

The importance for a guy like me would be when reading yeast lab specs. If I want a beer to drop really clear, choosing a yeast that is highly flocculant may not necessarily be the answer. Right? Or no

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 11:50:49 AM »
Hey, Jim - since "flocs sediment faster than individual cells" as Mark said, I doubt that you will find a quick sedimenting, but low flocculant yeast strain.  I have found that some low flocculant yeasts can be coaxed into sedimenting by chilling the finished beer, so there are ways to get brighter beer quicker even though you are using an otherwise low flocculant strain.  And there is always fining....
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Lacto. Starter
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 10:21:05 AM »
Hey, Jim - since "flocs sediment faster than individual cells" as Mark said, I doubt that you will find a quick sedimenting, but low flocculant yeast strain.  I have found that some low flocculant yeasts can be coaxed into sedimenting by chilling the finished beer, so there are ways to get brighter beer quicker even though you are using an otherwise low flocculant strain.  And there is always fining....
Well that's my understanding of it, but mark seemed to be saying they were two separate things