[coolman26]

In a local newspaper recently there was an article describing this very thing.  Three people, a respected pro brewer, a bjcp certified judge and the beer writer were given 6 Jai Alai IPAs from a week old to six months old and asked to put them in order by age.  None of them were even close, one even picking the oldest as the second freshest.  Of course Cigar City spends a lot of money on equipment to eliminate oxygen.

Another thing to note about entering fresh beers is that bottle conditioned beers will keep longer because the yeast will scavenge the oxygen, so it doesn't need to be as fresh as an entry bottled from a keg.
[/quote]

I bought a case of Jai Alai and they were gushers.  All that equipment doesn't always payoff

[a10t2]

One had lots of diacetyl. … In other words, punished for my hubris. The Wrath of the Titans of Beer.

FWIW, inconsistent diacetyl more likely indicates contamination (specifically Pediococcus) during bottling than anything else.

[toby]

One had lots of diacetyl. … In other words, punished for my hubris. The Wrath of the Titans of Beer.

FWIW, inconsistent diacetyl more likely indicates contamination (specifically Pediococcus) during bottling than anything else.

Yep, pedio can lead to a butter bomb.  Had a sour at a competition earlier in the year that was straight up movie popcorn butter.  Other than that it had a lot of potential, if they would have krauesened it to get some sacc in there to clean it up.

I'm about to send a fast IPA in to the BrewUnited Challenge.  Going for an 11 day turnaround.

[erockrph]

One had lots of diacetyl. … In other words, punished for my hubris. The Wrath of the Titans of Beer.

FWIW, inconsistent diacetyl more likely indicates contamination (specifically Pediococcus) during bottling than anything else.

Yep, pedio can lead to a butter bomb.  Had a sour at a competition earlier in the year that was straight up movie popcorn butter.  Other than that it had a lot of potential, if they would have krauesened it to get some sacc in there to clean it up.

I'm about to send a fast IPA in to the BrewUnited Challenge.  Going for an 11 day turnaround.

Wow. I thought 4 weeks was going to be cutting it close for mine. Good luck!

[toby]

Wow. I thought 4 weeks was going to be cutting it close for mine. Good luck!

Thanks.  This is a tweak to my standard recipe, so it should be pretty easy to hit what I'm going for.  I dropped the gravity a little and pitched a healthy yeast starter, so it should be fine.  It will be between 3.5 and 4 weeks when it gets judged.

[homoeccentricus]

Wow. I thought 4 weeks was going to be cutting it close for mine. Good luck!

Thanks.  This is a tweak to my standard recipe, so it should be pretty easy to hit what I'm going for.  I dropped the gravity a little and pitched a healthy yeast starter, so it should be fine.  It will be between 3.5 and 4 weeks when it gets judged.

4 weeks with refermentation in the bottle? Because that's what I did, which resulted in a few problematic bottles.

[toby]

4 weeks with refermentation in the bottle? Because that's what I did, which resulted in a few problematic bottles.

No, force carb in a keg and then bottled.  I'm basically following the advice I gave you.  I went with a lower gravity version of my standard IPA and pitched a healthy starter.  I'm going to transfer to keg and keg hop after 11 days and bottle on day 13 or 14.  If something is awry, I'll know it at transfer, but I've brewed this IPA recipe (more or less) a bunch of times and have a really good idea of what to expect.

That being said, were all your bottles new, or were they recycled commercial bottles?  Did you use something along the lines of PBW/Oxiclean to clean them and then sanitize them?  If only some bottles had diacetyl, you probably had a few with a pedio culture already in them (or that was accidentally introduced in your bottling process).

[homoeccentricus]

The infamous competition bottle that had diacetyl was from a Dutch bottle of pils I bought in the supermarket. I needed that bottle because it had the required format for the competition in the Netherlands. The beer was carefully poured away before I rinsed and cleaned the bottle. So I don't think it's pedio. It was an act of God.

[klickitat jim]

The infamous competition bottle that had diacetyl was from a Dutch bottle of pils I bought in the supermarket. I needed that bottle because it had the required bottle for the competition in the Netherlands. The beer was carefully poured away before I rinsed and cleaned the bottle. So I don't think it's pedio. It was an act of God.

Diacetyl is only one indication of a pedio infection. Denial is the other.

[69franx]

The infamous competition bottle that had diacetyl was from a Dutch bottle of pils I bought in the supermarket. I needed that bottle because it had the required bottle for the competition in the Netherlands. The beer was carefully poured away before I rinsed and cleaned the bottle. So I don't think it's pedio. It was an act of God.

Diacetyl is only one indication of a pedio infection. Denial is the other.

+1

[homoeccentricus]

The infamous competition bottle that had diacetyl was from a Dutch bottle of pils I bought in the supermarket. I needed that bottle because it had the required bottle for the competition in the Netherlands. The beer was carefully poured away before I rinsed and cleaned the bottle. So I don't think it's pedio. It was an act of God.

Diacetyl is only one indication of a pedio infection. Denial is the other.

I blame your gelatin addition procedure.

[a10t2]

The beer was carefully poured away before I rinsed and cleaned the bottle

And sanitized?

Regardless of whether it's actually Pedio, the logic is the same: if the problem doesn't occur in every bottle, then it happened at bottling.

[homoeccentricus]

TBH, I'm  experiencing the whole spectrum from killed by diacetyl to OMG, this is better than any IPA ever produced in the eastern hemisphere.

[toby]

That pretty much proves a bottling related issue.

[homoeccentricus]

And that pretty much proves I need to start kegging. At least I'll ruin the whole batch consistently.