Author Topic: Kentucky Common & Apple?  (Read 915 times)

Offline tworudysbrew

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Kentucky Common & Apple?
« on: July 17, 2015, 08:05:33 PM »
Hi all - I'm looking into brewing a Kentucky Common and was thinking about adding apple flavor/essence and maybe cinnamon. Will this style work with apples and maybe cinnamon? Or should I do this with a Porter instead? Thanks and happy Friday!


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Offline denny

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2015, 08:42:56 PM »
Hi all - I'm looking into brewing a Kentucky Common and was thinking about adding apple flavor/essence and maybe cinnamon. Will this style work with apples and maybe cinnamon? Or should I do this with a Porter instead? Thanks and happy Friday!


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No offense, but it sounds like you haven't really thought this through.  You should have a solid idea if the base beer first and THEN think about what you can add to enhance it.  It kinda sounds like you've decided you want to use apple and cinnamon and you just want to shove 'em into some beer.
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Offline tworudysbrew

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2015, 09:16:47 PM »
No, I was already planning to brew Common this fall and thought it might be cool to add some apple, if it's good for that style.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 02:59:59 AM »
Honest question, have you had a legit Kentucky Common? They aren't really sour, more of a dark cream ale.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 10:09:01 AM »
It might taste good but... it won't be a Kentucky Common.  I agree with Denny.  It just seems like a strange choice to spruce up, since KC is a historical style that most brewers have never ever tasted and only just recently was understood well enough to be resurrected.  Almost like blasphemy or something.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 11:02:48 AM »
Welcome to the forum by the way...

I say, go for it. If you like apples n spice I'm sure it will be good and something fun to do.

Offline MDixon

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 10:42:40 PM »
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2015, 03:28:53 AM »
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 03:36:23 AM »
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric subject at this point? It seems to me that you'd have to be born about 1900 and have a heck of a memory to be able to say with any authority what a true Kentucky Common tasted like.

Offline troybinso

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 04:20:04 AM »
Hi all - I'm looking into brewing a Kentucky Common and was thinking about adding apple flavor/essence and maybe cinnamon. Will this style work with apples and maybe cinnamon? Or should I do this with a Porter instead? Thanks and happy Friday!


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No offense, but it sounds like you haven't really thought this through.  You should have a solid idea if the base beer first and THEN think about what you can add to enhance it.  It kinda sounds like you've decided you want to use apple and cinnamon and you just want to shove 'em into some beer.
Why do you say that you should have a base beer first and then add stuff to it?

Offline Stevie

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 05:01:47 AM »

Hi all - I'm looking into brewing a Kentucky Common and was thinking about adding apple flavor/essence and maybe cinnamon. Will this style work with apples and maybe cinnamon? Or should I do this with a Porter instead? Thanks and happy Friday!


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No offense, but it sounds like you haven't really thought this through.  You should have a solid idea if the base beer first and THEN think about what you can add to enhance it.  It kinda sounds like you've decided you want to use apple and cinnamon and you just want to shove 'em into some beer.
Why do you say that you should have a base beer first and then add stuff to it?
He is saying that one should figure out how to get a solid version of the base beer, then consider ways to enhance or change it.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 07:33:39 AM »

Hi all - I'm looking into brewing a Kentucky Common and was thinking about adding apple flavor/essence and maybe cinnamon. Will this style work with apples and maybe cinnamon? Or should I do this with a Porter instead? Thanks and happy Friday!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No offense, but it sounds like you haven't really thought this through.  You should have a solid idea if the base beer first and THEN think about what you can add to enhance it.  It kinda sounds like you've decided you want to use apple and cinnamon and you just want to shove 'em into some beer.
Why do you say that you should have a base beer first and then add stuff to it?
He is saying that one should figure out how to get a solid version of the base beer, then consider ways to enhance or change it.
That's probably it. Trouble is, maybe his Kentucky common is solid... only his first post. Tuff to say, but if anyone would know it would be Denny.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2015, 11:40:11 AM »
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric subject at this point? It seems to me that you'd have to be born about 1900 and have a heck of a memory to be able to say with any authority what a true Kentucky Common tasted like.
The supposition has been that a sour mash was used due to the proximity to the Bourbon distillers. Brewing logs from 2 of the Louisville breweries show that is not true, no sour mash. We all know that Scotish Brewers use peated malt in Scotch Ales right?  ;)  The records show that is not true.

Could it have become sour once out in the trade, yes. I have had beers in England that we're going off and taking on a sourish wines finish, Fullers ESB on the last trip. Those "strong" beers move slow at some pubs.
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BJCP National
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2015, 12:14:09 PM »
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric
I still disagree with the assertion a KY Common was never historically tart. While I agree with the Brown Cream ale, a sour mash version adds a nice low tart complexity.

With that in mind, I would suggest you just brew something else to make your apple cinnamon ale.
Sure some were tart due to poor packaging or process - just like there are some Craft beers you can find today that are off. If someone finds a primary record of a brewery doing a sour mash, then it is a different story.
Isnt it just an esoteric subject at this point? It seems to me that you'd have to be born about 1900 and have a heck of a memory to be able to say with any authority what a true Kentucky Common tasted like.
The supposition has been that a sour mash was used due to the proximity to the Bourbon distillers. Brewing logs from 2 of the Louisville breweries show that is not true, no sour mash. We all know that Scotish Brewers use peated malt in Scotch Ales right?  ;)  The records show that is not true.

Could it have become sour once out in the trade, yes. I have had beers in England that we're going off and taking on a sourish wines finish, Fullers ESB on the last trip. Those "strong" beers move slow at some pubs.
Right, but at some point its like being a dinosaur expert. Im not convinced the fossil record will prove what they sounded like...

Kentucky Commons had their chance, and nature selected them for extinction ;-)

I still think he can brew one and put apples in it if he wants to. If clams in a saison works, what the heck, right?

Offline MDixon

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Re: Kentucky Common & Apple?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2015, 12:28:09 PM »
When the definitive reference for beers in the early 20th Century defines the beer as being a particular way it CANNOT be discounted unless one agrees to discount the entire reference. Whether the tart character came from sour mash or yeast/bacterium, it was certainly present. All the "proof" I have seen that it did not have that character were brew logs which had no mention of anything other than grists.

So when Wahl & Henius says the beer was tart in 1908...it was tart at that time...end of story.

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