Author Topic: Fullers - WLP 002  (Read 5775 times)

Online Iliff Ave

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2015, 05:19:14 PM »
S-04 = 1098 = WLP007 = Whitbread dry

WLP002 = 1968 = Fullers

Thanks for the correction. I originally thought S04 was Fullers but then learned it was Whitbread and then forgot completely. I don't use a lot of English strains...
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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2015, 05:21:32 PM »
FYI, there's something very wrong with WLP820.  I would not advise using it interchangeably with the others... or at all.  Sure you didn't mean to say WLP830?  That's what's listed against 2124 at:

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

We are now officially derailed.

You are correct.  It was a typo.

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2015, 06:33:36 PM »
I'm only guessing, but I imagine it's originally English in nature.  Might be wrong.

I believe that Bry 96 may be of German origin.  Bry 96 is a diploid S. cerevisiae strain, which is somewhat unique in the world of brewing.  There is significant evidence to support the assertion that Bry 96 was Ballantine's lager beer strain.  Ballantine produced lager beer in the old Schalk Brother's Brewery.  The Schalk brothers were Germans.

https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/schalkbrewery

The production strain that was used at the old Acme Brewing Company in San Francisco is also diploid.  Acme was founded by the same German entrepreneur who founded Olympia in Tumwater, Washington; namely, Leopold Schmidt.  Acme was primarily a lager beer brewery.

There zero doubt in my mind that Bry 97 is of British origin.  There's also zero doubt in my mind that Bry 97 was Ballantine's ale yeast strain.  Ballentine IPA was the inspiration for Anchor Liberty Ale, and Fritz got to the collection before Sierra Nevada.




Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2015, 07:28:12 PM »
Some think Archibald MacKenchnie may have brought that yeast over. Edit - the BRY-97.
https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/brewercheckshisale
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 03:07:55 AM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline case thrower

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 07:33:02 PM »
Dave & Mark, thanks for the info.  Mark, I've read many of your posts before and I always said I was going to do up a chart so I could match the different names with each other.  This is a great start.  Thanks again.
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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2015, 04:14:04 AM »
Some think Archibald MacKenchnie may have brought that yeast over. Edit - the BRY-97.
https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/brewercheckshisale

The photos of the grant are really interesting.  The Ballantine brew house must have been a work of art. 

I am always impressed when I see a photo of a Baudelot cooler.  I have a 1946 copy of the Master Brewers Association of America publication "The Practical Brewer."  A lot of cool old technology is covered in that textbook.  The neat thing about the Baudelot cooler is that the refrigerant runs inside of the tubes while the wort runs on the outside of the tubes, which is backwards from the way that a counterflow chiller works.  These guys were dealing with ammonia (R717)-based refrigeration systems.  Ammonia changes phase from a liquid to a gas at -33.3C.  It sinks a lot of heat during that phase change.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2015, 12:02:40 PM »
Some think Archibald MacKenchnie may have brought that yeast over. Edit - the BRY-97.
https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/brewercheckshisale

The photos of the grant are really interesting.  The Ballantine brew house must have been a work of art. 

I am always impressed when I see a photo of a Baudelot cooler.  I have a 1946 copy of the Master Brewers Association of America publication "The Practical Brewer."  A lot of cool old technology is covered in that textbook.  The neat thing about the Baudelot cooler is that the refrigerant runs inside of the tubes while the wort runs on the outside of the tubes, which is backwards from the way that a counterflow chiller works.  These guys were dealing with ammonia (R717)-based refrigeration systems.  Ammonia changes phase from a liquid to a gas at -33.3C.  It sinks a lot of heat during that phase change.
I have seen a few in Europe. Impressive amounts of copper in some of those.

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2015, 02:03:27 PM »
Shook up the fermentor and will check back in at the 2 week mark on Monday.

The culture should reduce the diacetyl if you give it time to work.  However,  diacetyl is not out of place in a bitter.  An ordinary bitter is such a small beer that it needs flavor contributions from the yeast.  I personally like a touch of diacetyl in my British beers, but I rarely get it.  I plan to study NCYC 1333 in the fall.  NCYC 1333 is a Yorkshire strain. Yorkshire strains are notorious for producing diacetyl bombs.  That's why the square system was invented.

Offline case thrower

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2015, 02:50:54 PM »
I'll give you this link, but be warned: the author (not me) inserts guesses that in some instances are not correct.  However this is also the table that appears to come the closest to accuracy -- there are several other tables out there on the web that are grossly inaccurate.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0093/2142/files/Yeast_Substitutions.pdf

Ok, now here's a question right on topic.  In the chart Dave directed me to, Muntons Ale yeast is listed with question marks as (possibly) the equivalent of WLP002 and 1968.  Any reason to believe/disbelieve that?  I know my LHBS carries it in 6 gram packets, but I've never used it.  Maybe I should give it a try.
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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2015, 04:32:53 PM »
Ok, now here's a question right on topic.  In the chart Dave directed me to, Muntons Ale yeast is listed with question marks as (possibly) the equivalent of WLP002 and 1968.  Any reason to believe/disbelieve that?  I know my LHBS carries it in 6 gram packets, but I've never used it.  Maybe I should give it a try.

The Munton's Gold yeast strain may be related to Young's, which, in turn, is related to Fuller's.  However, that's a stretch. There's a dry yeast strain in the UK that is marketed under the Young's brand name.


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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2017, 01:07:17 PM »
Felt the need to resurrect this puppy.... I just figured this out.... If you get Zymurgy magazine, take a look at issue March/April 2017. Right there on page 18, Fuller's themselves are endorsing Danstar/Lallemand London ESB yeast. So if you're looking for WLP002/1968, then look no further than the new London ESB yeast from Lallemand.

Cheers.
Dave

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2017, 03:25:53 AM »
Felt the need to resurrect this puppy.... I just figured this out.... If you get Zymurgy magazine, take a look at issue March/April 2017. Right there on page 18, Fuller's themselves are endorsing Danstar/Lallemand London ESB yeast. So if you're looking for WLP002/1968, then look no further than the new London ESB yeast from Lallemand.

Cheers.

IDK dave, they perform completely differently. Something is up with the dry yeast, it doesn't seem to be able to attenuate as much. I know enough organic chemistry to know that whatever I would say would be technically incorrect, but I suspect that there's some part of the typical carbohydrate metabolism that London ESB dry just can't ferment, maybe maltotriose?

Online dmtaylor

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2017, 05:17:26 AM »
Felt the need to resurrect this puppy.... I just figured this out.... If you get Zymurgy magazine, take a look at issue March/April 2017. Right there on page 18, Fuller's themselves are endorsing Danstar/Lallemand London ESB yeast. So if you're looking for WLP002/1968, then look no further than the new London ESB yeast from Lallemand.

Cheers.

IDK dave, they perform completely differently. Something is up with the dry yeast, it doesn't seem to be able to attenuate as much. I know enough organic chemistry to know that whatever I would say would be technically incorrect, but I suspect that there's some part of the typical carbohydrate metabolism that London ESB dry just can't ferment, maybe maltotriose?

You are the second person to tell me this now.  Hmm.  Yeah, the drying process must screw it up somehow.  Could compensate perhaps by mashing extra long, like an overnight mash?

« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 05:19:25 AM by dmtaylor »
Dave

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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2017, 12:39:15 PM »
Felt the need to resurrect this puppy.... I just figured this out.... If you get Zymurgy magazine, take a look at issue March/April 2017. Right there on page 18, Fuller's themselves are endorsing Danstar/Lallemand London ESB yeast. So if you're looking for WLP002/1968, then look no further than the new London ESB yeast from Lallemand.

Cheers.

IDK dave, they perform completely differently. Something is up with the dry yeast, it doesn't seem to be able to attenuate as much. I know enough organic chemistry to know that whatever I would say would be technically incorrect, but I suspect that there's some part of the typical carbohydrate metabolism that London ESB dry just can't ferment, maybe maltotriose?

You are the second person to tell me this now.  Hmm.  Yeah, the drying process must screw it up somehow.  Could compensate perhaps by mashing extra long, like an overnight mash?

I just used this in a 1.050 Bitter almost 2 weeks ago. Mashed at 150* and fermented dead nuts at 66*. It got to work quickly, I had activity ~4 hrs after pitching. It also fermented quickly, krausen was about gone by day 3. I have yet to try any samples and the beer is still to drop clear like you would see with 1968 but if there are any similarities among flavor and character it will still be a winner in my book. I skipped any finnnings to see how it performed on this trial batch. I usually use whirlfloc in the boil. If need be after cold crashing I guess the beer could also be cleared with gelatin.

But I have also heard from anyone to use it that they are not quite the same animal. Rather it seems to be sort of a spin off of Windsor. Perhaps teaming it up with Notty would be a nice mix.

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Re: Fullers - WLP 002
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2017, 03:40:02 PM »
Felt the need to resurrect this puppy.... I just figured this out.... If you get Zymurgy magazine, take a look at issue March/April 2017. Right there on page 18, Fuller's themselves are endorsing Danstar/Lallemand London ESB yeast. So if you're looking for WLP002/1968, then look no further than the new London ESB yeast from Lallemand.

Cheers.

IDK dave, they perform completely differently. Something is up with the dry yeast, it doesn't seem to be able to attenuate as much. I know enough organic chemistry to know that whatever I would say would be technically incorrect, but I suspect that there's some part of the typical carbohydrate metabolism that London ESB dry just can't ferment, maybe maltotriose?

You are the second person to tell me this now.  Hmm.  Yeah, the drying process must screw it up somehow.  Could compensate perhaps by mashing extra long, like an overnight mash?

I just used this in a 1.050 Bitter almost 2 weeks ago. Mashed at 150* and fermented dead nuts at 66*. It got to work quickly, I had activity ~4 hrs after pitching. It also fermented quickly, krausen was about gone by day 3. I have yet to try any samples and the beer is still to drop clear like you would see with 1968 but if there are any similarities among flavor and character it will still be a winner in my book. I skipped any finnnings to see how it performed on this trial batch. I usually use whirlfloc in the boil. If need be after cold crashing I guess the beer could also be cleared with gelatin.

But I have also heard from anyone to use it that they are not quite the same animal. Rather it seems to be sort of a spin off of Windsor. Perhaps teaming it up with Notty would be a nice mix.
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