Author Topic: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?  (Read 4820 times)

Offline kramerog

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2015, 11:12:23 am »
I can't address the weizen issues.  To do multiple infusions in Brun water you have to enter two separate mashes.  The second mash has all the water and salts added for the first mash. 

Note that the desired pH for a ferulic acid rest is 5.7-5.8 per http://beerandwinejournal.com/german-wheat-beer-iii/ and  http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/06/04/how-much-effect-does-a-ferulic-acid-rest-have/

Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2015, 11:30:25 am »
I can't address the weizen issues.  To do multiple infusions in Brun water you have to enter two separate mashes.  The second mash has all the water and salts added for the first mash. 

Note that the desired pH for a ferulic acid rest is 5.7-5.8 per http://beerandwinejournal.com/german-wheat-beer-iii/ and  http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/06/04/how-much-effect-does-a-ferulic-acid-rest-have/ .

Thanks! My LHBS was out of pils malt so the brew got delayed which will give me a chance to use the info you've provided.

I had no idea about doing the acid rest at 5.7-5.8 and I think that's about where I'll be before adjustments. So I'l probably just end up adding my salts after the ferulic rest for the remainder of the mash. I'll check the numbers in Bru'n water first to make sure.


Offline kramerog

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2015, 11:44:16 am »
I can't address the weizen issues.  To do multiple infusions in Brun water you have to enter two separate mashes.  The second mash has all the water and salts added for the first mash. 

Note that the desired pH for a ferulic acid rest is 5.7-5.8 per http://beerandwinejournal.com/german-wheat-beer-iii/ and  http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/06/04/how-much-effect-does-a-ferulic-acid-rest-have/ .

Thanks! My LHBS was out of pils malt so the brew got delayed which will give me a chance to use the info you've provided.

I had no idea about doing the acid rest at 5.7-5.8 and I think that's about where I'll be before adjustments. So I'l probably just end up adding my salts after the ferulic rest for the remainder of the mash. I'll check the numbers in Bru'n water first to make sure.


I think that with my water I would probably not need to do any salt additions for a ferulic acid rest and so all my salt additions would be afterwards too. 

There is another wrinkle here.  The temperature of ferulic acid rest is within the range for a phytase rest which produces acidity.  I'm unclear as to how much acidity is produced during a phytase rest but apparently not a lot for a short rest because the phytase rest might go for several hours per Palmer's http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-2.html.

Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2015, 12:01:20 pm »
I can't address the weizen issues.  To do multiple infusions in Brun water you have to enter two separate mashes.  The second mash has all the water and salts added for the first mash. 

Note that the desired pH for a ferulic acid rest is 5.7-5.8 per http://beerandwinejournal.com/german-wheat-beer-iii/ and  http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2010/06/04/how-much-effect-does-a-ferulic-acid-rest-have/ .

Thanks! My LHBS was out of pils malt so the brew got delayed which will give me a chance to use the info you've provided.

I had no idea about doing the acid rest at 5.7-5.8 and I think that's about where I'll be before adjustments. So I'l probably just end up adding my salts after the ferulic rest for the remainder of the mash. I'll check the numbers in Bru'n water first to make sure.


I think that with my water I would probably not need to do any salt additions for a ferulic acid rest and so all my salt additions would be afterwards too. 

There is another wrinkle here.  The temperature of ferulic acid rest is within the range for a phytase rest which produces acidity.  I'm unclear as to how much acidity is produced during a phytase rest but apparently not a lot for a short rest because the phytase rest might go for several hours per Palmer's http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-2.html.

Thanks.

My treatments to get the salts where I want them will likely leave me needing to add a ml or two of lactic, so in light of your info I will stir the salts in first and take a pH reading before adding all of the calculated acid.


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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 12:33:35 pm »
There is a lot of great information in these slides, but 52 through 55 specifically deal with weissbier:

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/SteveHolle_GermanBrewing.pdf

You might also want to check out Kai's recipe:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell

Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 02:30:00 pm »
Thanks!

Offline JT

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2015, 06:22:08 pm »
There is a lot of great information in these slides, but 52 through 55 specifically deal with weissbier:

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/SteveHolle_GermanBrewing.pdf

You might also want to check out Kai's recipe:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weissbier_Hell
Anyone care to weigh in on what this means as far as target cell count or starter size?  From Kai's recipe:
"Wyeast 3068, propagated to yield about 50-70 g loose yeast slurry."
I've never measured the slurry.

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Offline JT

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 06:46:25 pm »
I actually got some sulfur from my hefe (currently on tap) at first.  If this happens keep that carbonation up and vent often.  I'm at 20 psi @ 40°.
It'll go away.  I started fermenting at 64, but pulled it from the chamber after 3 days to 68 ambient to make room for another brew.  This beer is still really tasty, but next time I'll go 62-64 for the duration.


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« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 07:11:14 pm by JT »

Offline majorvices

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 07:16:12 pm »
If you want to accentuate clove and minimize banana go with White Labs HefeWeizen IV strain (wlp380). Pitch a healthy starter in at about 58 degrees, hold temp until fermentation is active for 3 or 4 days then ramp up to 64, hold a couple days then ramp up to 68 until finished. Cold crash 48 hours then package.

Offline MadJohnShaft

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 01:35:07 pm »
Mine needed a blowoff tube - 3068 took off like crazy for me


Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2015, 08:42:12 pm »
I actually got some sulfur from my hefe (currently on tap) at first.  If this happens keep that carbonation up and vent often.  I'm at 20 psi @ 40°.
It'll go away.  I started fermenting at 64, but pulled it from the chamber after 3 days to 68 ambient to make room for another brew.  This beer is still really tasty, but next time I'll go 62-64 for the duration.


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Looks good!

Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2015, 08:49:56 pm »
If you want to accentuate clove and minimize banana go with White Labs HefeWeizen IV strain (wlp380). Pitch a healthy starter in at about 58 degrees, hold temp until fermentation is active for 3 or 4 days then ramp up to 64, hold a couple days then ramp up to 68 until finished. Cold crash 48 hours then package.

I'm not so much wanting to accentuate the clove as to just make sure it's balanced with the banana. I find that most of the hefeweizens I've tried at brewpubs are way over the top banana -- almost like a caricature of a hefeweizen. That is what I want to avoid. The imports from Germany never seem to have that crazy banana bomb problem, so I'm not sure if Americans are doing it on purpose or if there is some secret to keeping a balance.

My plan actually was to use WLP380 but my LHBS only carries Wyeast. As it turns out, my LHBS was out of pils malt so the brew got delayed anyway so I might take a ride and get WLP380.

Only issue is I would have problems holding at 58 right now. Best I can do is about 62 to 64 (beer temp) and my plan was to pitch at 60, let rise and hold at 64 for about 5 days, then bring it up to about 70 until it was done. Do you think those temps would be an issue for that yeast?

 

Offline pete b

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2015, 06:41:55 am »
If you want to accentuate clove and minimize banana go with White Labs HefeWeizen IV strain (wlp380). Pitch a healthy starter in at about 58 degrees, hold temp until fermentation is active for 3 or 4 days then ramp up to 64, hold a couple days then ramp up to 68 until finished. Cold crash 48 hours then package.

I'm not so much wanting to accentuate the clove as to just make sure it's balanced with the banana. I find that most of the hefeweizens I've tried at brewpubs are way over the top banana -- almost like a caricature of a hefeweizen. That is what I want to avoid. The imports from Germany never seem to have that crazy banana bomb problem, so I'm not sure if Americans are doing it on purpose or if there is some secret to keeping a balance.

My plan actually was to use WLP380 but my LHBS only carries Wyeast. As it turns out, my LHBS was out of pils malt so the brew got delayed anyway so I might take a ride and get WLP380.

Only issue is I would have problems holding at 58 right now. Best I can do is about 62 to 64 (beer temp) and my plan was to pitch at 60, let rise and hold at 64 for about 5 days, then bring it up to about 70 until it was done. Do you think those temps would be an issue for that yeast?
IME that temp is just low enough for a hefe. I think higher sixties for the first couple days would be a problem banana wise.
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Offline beersk

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2015, 09:51:48 am »
Yes, start your fermentation around 64F for more balance between clove and banana.
Jesse

Offline johnnyb

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Re: WY 3068 and Avoiding Banana Bomb?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2015, 08:11:03 am »
So I did end up going with WY 3068 as I couldn't get White Labs locally.

Grist was 60:40 wheat to Vienna with a touch of Caraffa II for color. Pitched at 62 and managed to hold it close (beer temp) for 4 days then let it slow rise up to 70.

It is awesome! Excellent balance of clove and banana, and closer to a German import than any domestic hefe that I've tried.

It did throw some sulfur during fermentation but most of it cleaned up prior to kegging. I had to vent the keg a bunch of times as well, but all the sulfur is gone now. (Not sure why it did that as it had a quick blast off and vigorous fermentation.)

I'll try to get someone to take a good picture this weekend.