[duboman]

I've gotten to the point that I'm only using hops for dry hopping my sour beers. Some say try to keep the IBUs at 5 or less, and at that point I think "why bother at all?" Just a thought. If we are lowering hops that much because we want our lacto to kick butt, why use them at all? In a firmly soured beer I dont miss them. Then if you want some hop flavor/aroma just dry hop. Just an opinion.

Interesting point Jim.  I know that for the last straight lambic I brewed, I did not add any hops whatsoever and that beer turned out fantastic picking up a medal as both a straight lambic (3rd) and as a raspberry lambic (1st) in the same competition this past spring.

 

As for the malt I'm at 60-40 malt to wheat and mash at 152, last batch scored a 40. I've got an entry coming in a couple weeks with another batch so my hopes are high again!

Wow, that is a great score for a traditional gose.  I have always struggled when entering those in comps as some judges just don't understand the style very well.  Hopefully the new 2015 guidelines will change that.

I was quite pleased! Second place medal. The first time I ever brewed it didn't fair well but I sent the score sheet to a nationally ranked judge that really left great feedback and got a lot more insight for the second batch which obviously helped a LOT!

[duboman]

Your process is exactly the one one I use, can't speak of the lacto blend you're using as I use the 5335.  2-3 days at 90 is perfect.

+1 on WY1007, great yeast and tolerates the low pH and as for salt, I've used up to 22g and got comments of a bit too salty and 15g got perhaps a bit more salt......  I use sea salt and have found that 17-18g is pretty good in a 5 gallon batch. I add the salt at 10 minutes left in the boil.

As for the malt I'm at 60-40 malt to wheat and mash at 152, last batch scored a 40. I've got an entry coming in a couple weeks with another batch so my hopes are high again!

Thanks.

I read your Gose threads and then also got some feedback from porkchop on NB forums and read everything else I could find. Your process seemed repeatable plus the bugs will only be in one of my fermenters, which is appealing as I'm still nervous about taking my first step into sours.

Sounds like I'm close on the salt. The Gose's that I've enjoyed the most you could barely tell had salt in them. I've had a few that were really salty, but that's not what I'm going for.

For some reason, I'm not sure that coriander was detectable in any that I've tried. How much do you use and how detectable is it?

I use 3g of finely crushed fresh coriander seeds added at 10 minutes, not completely noticeable but you can just tell its present. Let us know how you're turns out!

[johnnyb]

Yikes, 3 grams. I was going to use 14 grams and that was on the low end of what I've seen recommended. Some people recommend more than 28 grams for a 5 gallon batch!

No way I want to use 14 grams if 3 grams is even slightly noticeable.

I'll definitely post my thoughts as I go through the process and my results.

[reverseapachemaster]

Yikes, 3 grams. I was going to use 14 grams and that was on the low end of what I've seen recommended. Some people recommend more than 28 grams for a 5 gallon batch!

No way I want to use 14 grams if 3 grams is even slightly noticeable.

I'll definitely post my thoughts as I go through the process and my results.

There's a lot of variables that go into determining spicing in these types of beer. Some people like them more aggressively spiced than others and that can play a tremendous role. Fresh versus powder can be a critical issue. Powder coriander is usually fairly old and has lost some of its potency by the time it is used. The type of coriander matters; Indian coriander is usually more potent than European coriander. Acidity will also play a role. The more sour the gose the more the spices will stand out in the same way adding acid to food brings out flavors. Three grams might be right for your beer but I would make sure I had more on hand to add if you find that volume is too light for your preferences.

[johnnyb]

Yikes, 3 grams. I was going to use 14 grams and that was on the low end of what I've seen recommended. Some people recommend more than 28 grams for a 5 gallon batch!

No way I want to use 14 grams if 3 grams is even slightly noticeable.

I'll definitely post my thoughts as I go through the process and my results.

There's a lot of variables that go into determining spicing in these types of beer. Some people like them more aggressively spiced than others and that can play a tremendous role. Fresh versus powder can be a critical issue. Powder coriander is usually fairly old and has lost some of its potency by the time it is used. The type of coriander matters; Indian coriander is usually more potent than European coriander. Acidity will also play a role. The more sour the gose the more the spices will stand out in the same way adding acid to food brings out flavors. Three grams might be right for your beer but I would make sure I had more on hand to add if you find that volume is too light for your preferences.

Thank you for the response. I was trying to do a bit more research and planning before following up, and then got tied up brewing an APA last weekend, so sorry for the delay.

I think I'm going to shoot for a pH of somewhere about 3.6 or so. From what I can tell, that should be fairly tart in this style of beer without being completely mouth puckering. Any feedback on the pH from people with experience would be appreciated.

I'm going to start with 12 grams of pink sea salt.

As far as the coriander, I'm wondering if there is also a difference (besides the differences you noted) between roughly crushing and finely grounding the seed? A lot of the people mentioning 14 to 28 grams were roughly crushing the seed, while duboman uses 3 grams of finely crushed.

I am going to use high quality Indian coriander and probably doing a rough crush with a rolling pin.

Going for it this weekend!

Oh yeah, definitely decided on WY1007 for the finishing yeast.
 

[johnnyb]

Just checked my lacto starter and the pH is at 3.5 about 26 hours after pitching. I forgot to check the pH of the starter wort, but it was light pils DME at 1.040 but I'm assuming it was much higher than that to start.

My WY1007 stater is crashed and almost ready to go as well. Going to mash and sour the wort tomorrow and hoping to pitch the WY1007 sometime Sunday night.

Ended up going with 60:40 pils to wheat as suggested here by some folks. Might stir in 0.5 oz Caraffa II just before my batch sparge to bring the color up a bit.

Just need to figure out the mash water chemistry tonight and should be good to go.

 



 

[johnnyb]

Ok so far so good.

I have 6 gallons of wort pitched with the lactic starter and sitting in a water bath maintained at 82^o with an aquarium heater and pump. The starter dropped to a pH of 3.5 in 26 hours and was loaded with lactic bacteria when I pitched it. (Cloudy white when swirled.)

Usually I collect 7.5 to 8 gallons (depending on how many boil hops) pre-boil because I have a wide pot that boils down at least 1.5 gallons per hour. Since I needed to sour this in a carboy, I planned to only collect 6 gallons and then add some more water pre-boil. I just realized that this will probably water down my pH which obviously wouldn't be desirable in this beer.

Might have to settle for a smaller quantity into the keg.

[duboman]

Sounds like its moving along well! Your volumes sound about right, my gose with all the transfers finishes at around 4.5 gallons total packaged and I usually bottle it. Since its a sour its not readily consumed so I get to enjoy it for a while and not tie up a keg.

Looking forward to hear how it turns out!

[johnnyb]

So another update:

Collected 6 gallons of wort and pitched the lacto starter on Saturday afternoon. Sunday morning the pH of the wort was already down to 3.1 and got to 3.0 by the time I got it in the kettle an hour later.

I added a gallon of distilled water and 10 ounces of light pils DME and adjust the pH back up to 3.4 with pickling lime.

Ended up using Perle for bittering at 60 for about 9 IBU and tossed in 12 grams of pink Himalayan sea salt and 10 grams of crushed fresh Indian coriander at 5 minutes. 

Collected 5.5 gallons post boil at 1.040 and pitched a healthy starter of WY 1007 yesterday afternoon at 64^o. It took off fast and I'm working hard to keep it under 66^o at the moment -- need to swap out frozen water bottles every 60 minutes. The fermometer is reading 65/66 while I'm keeping the water bath at 63^o. Glad I rigged a blow-off tube as it needed it.

The wort tasted nice and tart even with all the sugars. I'm curious how much more sour it will taste after fermentation.

I'll report back here with results once it's kegged.

[johnnyb]

Took a gravity reading today and it's at 1.009, which probably means it's close to done. There is still a ton of yeast in suspension but it doesn't seem to be very active.

Looks like my ABV will be about 3.6% which is a tad lower than I was shooting for. This makes sense because I missed a bit on my points as I forgot to double crush my wheat. (I always double crush wheat to maintain a steady mash efficiency.)

The sample tasted really good. It is fairly tart but not face twisting sour. I didn't pick up on the salt or coriander but as mentioned there is still a lot of yeast in the sample. I wasn't shooting for recognizable salt or coriander character (just a subtle hint would be ok) so this is good news.

I threw down a reflexive fist pump after tasting it -- so I'm pretty happy so far!

[69franx]

Sounds great Johnny. Gose will likely be my first sour venture whenever I'm ready for that step