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Author Topic: Anti oxidation ideas  (Read 11935 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 09:38:31 am »
Avoid large quantities of crystal malts. The other day I had to dump an IPA from The Kernel, one of the best new breweries in the UK. Hadn't checked the date, had been brewed six months before. Undrinkable, I think because of the crystal malts.

But that has nothing to do with oxidation.  In fact, there's one school of thought that says crystal can help prevent oxidation.   I have np problem with beers with larger amounts of crystal if the rest of the recipe balances it.

This is something I have to disagree with. Everything I have read regarding recent information says that crystal malts, especially darker crystal malts, reduce shelf life due to oxidation issues. And usually hoppy beers paired with dark crystal malts are just plain bad. I would say "every" but I will leave out a few possible exceptions for beers I haven't tried.

well, I could be wrong..again.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 06:41:22 pm »
Just wondering at what point you consider a crystal malt "darker" for this purpose? 60L,120L, or greater?
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 08:40:54 pm »
Avoid large quantities of crystal malts. The other day I had to dump an IPA from The Kernel, one of the best new breweries in the UK. Hadn't checked the date, had been brewed six months before. Undrinkable, I think because of the crystal malts.

But that has nothing to do with oxidation.  In fact, there's one school of thought that says crystal can help prevent oxidation.   I have np problem with beers with larger amounts of crystal if the rest of the recipe balances it.

This is something I have to disagree with. Everything I have read regarding recent information says that crystal malts, especially darker crystal malts, reduce shelf life due to oxidation issues. And usually hoppy beers paired with dark crystal malts are just plain bad. I would say "every" but I will leave out a few possible exceptions for beers I haven't tried.

well, I could be wrong..again.
Could it just be that age enhances the natural sweetness and caramel/raisin/fig notes that naturally come from darker crystal malts? I certainly get that in older beers, but I've always attributed it to IBU dropoff over time which would mean there is less bitterness to balance the sweet crystal flavors. I've never really considered that it might be a separate oxidation process.
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Offline coolman26

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2015, 10:37:55 am »
If it makes you feel better, I have had the same issue.  When I brew any IPA, I drink IPA until it is gone.  I saved 6 from an IPA I brewed for the NHC comp.  I tried it last week and it was not very good.  I purged everything, bottled from the keg, and it didn't seem to be much better than when I just bottle conditioned.  Dry hops fade fast.  The more I dry hop the more O2 issues I have.  IPA beers just need to be hammered fresh.  Buying a tank and regulator wouldn't set you back much.  Purging is worth it IMO.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2015, 05:40:47 pm »
If it makes you feel better, I have had the same issue.  When I brew any IPA, I drink IPA until it is gone.  I saved 6 from an IPA I brewed for the NHC comp.  I tried it last week and it was not very good.  I purged everything, bottled from the keg, and it didn't seem to be much better than when I just bottle conditioned.  Dry hops fade fast.  The more I dry hop the more O2 issues I have.  IPA beers just need to be hammered fresh.  Buying a tank and regulator wouldn't set you back much.  Purging is worth it IMO.

+1.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 03:56:27 am »
One of the things I think really leads to oxidation in IPA type beers is dry hopping. I have noticed that when I dry hop a beer it stays fresh for about 4 weeks and then starts to pick up oxidation flavors. IPA type beers that I don't dry hop stay fresher longer.

One way that I have seen to get around that is to add your hops to a purge vessel and then rack the beer onto those hops. For instance, adding hops to a corny, purging completely and then racking beer onto the hops.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2015, 04:32:46 am »
Yes, I have read that too, that dry hops contribute more to oxidation than e.g. whirlpooled hops. Possibly stupid question: would it be possible to 'purge' hop pellets before adding them to primary?
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Offline JT

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2015, 05:16:17 am »
Yes, I have read that too, that dry hops contribute more to oxidation than e.g. whirlpooled hops. Possibly stupid question: would it be possible to 'purge' hop pellets before adding them to primary?
Not really, I mean you could blast them with co2 before dumping them in but I seriously doubt that would help at all. 

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Offline JT

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2015, 05:21:09 am »
Congratulations!  I still struggle with this from time to time.  The biggest difference I saw was when I started incorporating CO2 purging anytime I transferred(bucket & bottles).  I also set up my operation in a manner that keeps splashing to a minimum and spend a little more money on caps.  These things have really helped me buy more time in the bottle.  Even with those steps you will lose aroma over time, it's just the nature of the beast.
Thanks! Can you explain your purging process a little bit? What equipment do you use etc?
Purging can be as simple as jamming the open end of the hose from your co2 regulator into a vessel and turning the gas on for a bit.  The co2 sinks and begins to fill the vessel, displacing some of the o2. 

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2015, 06:01:58 am »
Purging can be as simple as jamming the open end of the hose from your co2 regulator into a vessel and turning the gas on for a bit.  The co2 sinks and begins to fill the vessel, displacing some of the o2. 

+1
Jon H.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2015, 05:49:51 am »
Purging can be as simple as jamming the open end of the hose from your co2 regulator into a vessel and turning the gas on for a bit.  The co2 sinks and begins to fill the vessel, displacing some of the o2. 

+1

That is basically how the Blichmann Beer Gun does it.  I use it to bottle for comps, though I rarely enter much anymore.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2015, 11:01:47 am »
If you're desperate to spend as little money as possible on a CO2 setup for purging then take a look at your local craigslist. It's not too hard to find CO2 tanks, sometimes even with the regulator, at cheap prices. You can take the CO2 tank to a place that swaps rather than refills if the tank is in rough condition. You can also buy a regulator, adapter and CO2 paintball tank but in the long term that 20oz. paintball tank is going to cost you more in refills than a larger tank. Plus, if you think you'll ever move to kegging you'll undoubtedly need a larger tank and that paintball tank will end up in the pile of no longer used brewing equipment that everybody has.

I'd also suggest reconsidering brewing smaller batches. It is more time per gallon of beer brewed but you also won't find yourself drinking gallons of IPA on the downhill because it takes so long to get through five gallons of beer. You may not have that kind of free time to brew that much beer. Maybe you could find a friend or neighbor who is willing to split five gallon batches with you and you can get through the batches quicker.

One issue that may plague your bottles is temperature. Oxidation and other IPA unfriendly activity occurs quicker at warmer temperatures so the cooler you can keep your beer the slower the hop dropoff will happen. This is why keg beer often holds up better. It's always kept cold. Keeping the bottles in the fridge will help extend their life. You may not have open fridge space for 50 bottles so again that's another way brewing smaller batches could be to your advantage.

I'd also look at how long you're keeping the beer in between brewday and when you start popping open bottles. If you're leaving the beer in the fermentor for a month and then another month in the bottle you're getting started drinking those beers way too late.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2015, 12:50:58 pm »
If it makes you feel better, I have had the same issue.  When I brew any IPA, I drink IPA until it is gone.  I saved 6 from an IPA I brewed for the NHC comp.  I tried it last week and it was not very good.  I purged everything, bottled from the keg, and it didn't seem to be much better than when I just bottle conditioned.  Dry hops fade fast.  The more I dry hop the more O2 issues I have.  IPA beers just need to be hammered fresh.  Buying a tank and regulator wouldn't set you back much.  Purging is worth it IMO.

When you bottled from the keg did you purge your bottles as well?  I would say that in the keg (with closed transfers from primary fermenter) that my IPA's stay at peak freshness for at least 6 wks.  Mind you, they are kept at 35F and usually don't last that long though. 

Offline dkfick

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2015, 08:10:16 am »
For all my IPAs and American Pale Ales I use ascorbic acid to help prevent oxidation.  If you're kegging add 1 teaspoon of it to the keg before racking into the keg.  If you are bottling I would add it to the bottling bucket with the priming sugar before you rack into the bottling bucket.  Then just bottle as usual.  This will greatly extend the shelf life of a hoppy beer in my experience.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Anti oxidation ideas
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2015, 01:07:09 pm »
For all my IPAs and American Pale Ales I use ascorbic acid to help prevent oxidation.  If you're kegging add 1 teaspoon of it to the keg before racking into the keg.  If you are bottling I would add it to the bottling bucket with the priming sugar before you rack into the bottling bucket.  Then just bottle as usual.  This will greatly extend the shelf life of a hoppy beer in my experience.

How much longer would you estimate that your beers benefit from this?