Author Topic: Canned wort for the non-canner  (Read 1319 times)

Online ynotbrusum

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Canned wort for the non-canner
« on: August 05, 2015, 06:26:33 PM »
Just saw this new product.  Just add water and yeast...

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fast-pitch-canned-wort-4-pack

It might make sense in limited situations to save a few minutes time in boiling and cooling.
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Offline Stevie

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Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 07:00:19 PM »
Still need to sanitize the water and I'd be worried about sticking my grubby hands all over the lid to open it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 07:01:55 PM by Steve in TX »

Offline pete b

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 07:40:25 PM »
I can't tell how many cans for $9.99. Is that a 4 pack or a six pack.
They claim no need to sanitize water.
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Offline Steve L

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 11:25:01 PM »
It's 4 cans to a pack. The OCD in me just won't let me add tap water to a starter without boiling. But I think a 16oz bottled water sprayed with starsan would probably be fine. ;)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 11:26:51 PM by Brewtweak »
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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2015, 11:43:00 PM »
I would sanitize the can top, for sure.  As to water, I would be inclined to use distilled and sanitize the container it comes in.

It is a four pack of pints.

Not endorsing it, just pointing out the availability!
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 02:36:07 AM »
I like the concept, it's just the need for dilution that makes it miss the mark because either:

A) You feel the need to boil the topoff water for sanitization purposes. In that case, there's not much difference from taking the time to make a traditional starter.

or

B) You don't feel the need to boil the topoff water. In which case, you might as well just add DME straight to the water at room temp and save the time and money. That's what I typically do and it works fine for me.
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Offline dmlsys23

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 02:57:21 AM »
It's 1.080 wort in the can.  Diluting it results in 1.040 wort.  The instructions state to sanitize the can top and that you don't need to boil the water, akin to topping off an extract batch with water.  I bought some and will report how it goes!  You don't even need to refrigerate it according to the FAQ.


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Offline johnnyb

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 03:29:57 AM »
I like the concept, it's just the need for dilution that makes it miss the mark because either:

A) You feel the need to boil the topoff water for sanitization purposes. In that case, there's not much difference from taking the time to make a traditional starter.

or

B) You don't feel the need to boil the topoff water. In which case, you might as well just add DME straight to the water at room temp and save the time and money. That's what I typically do and it works fine for me.


Is that common?

Offline pete b

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2015, 11:25:08 AM »
I like the concept, it's just the need for dilution that makes it miss the mark because either:

A) You feel the need to boil the topoff water for sanitization purposes. In that case, there's not much difference from taking the time to make a traditional starter.

or

B) You don't feel the need to boil the topoff water. In which case, you might as well just add DME straight to the water at room temp and save the time and money. That's what I typically do and it works fine for me.
I feel about the same about this. Its almost a great idea but the dilution thing makes it only a tiny bit easier than what I can do with ingredients I already have on hand. If it came ready to go in 1 liter containers I might get it. I assume they want to keep the weight down for shipping. as is its liquid extract that has been partially diluted.
It does give me an idea: a lhbs might do well to can liters of wort for starter and sell it at their brick and mortar store.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2015, 01:55:03 PM »
In which case, you might as well just add DME straight to the water at room temp and save the time and money. That's what I typically do and it works fine for me.
Is that common?

I don't think so, but the way I look at it, my tap water is sanitary enough for consumption and DME is so hygroscopic that nothing is going to be able to grow in it. For brewing, we're just creating sanitary conditions, not sterile ones. If you are using otherwise solid sanitation practices (such as proper cleaning and sanitization of anything that touches the wort), then you aren't likely to introduce a significant amount of contamination by skipping the boil in a starter.

When I'm dealing with old, unhealthy yeast or low cell counts (such as growing up bottle dregs), then I will boil my starter wort. In those cases a small amount of contamination could quickly outcompete the culture you are trying to grow.
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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 10:49:40 PM »
While I have never attempted it, nor do I recommend it, a brewer could get away without boiling a starter if he/she pitched a large healthy culture.   The need for sterility does increase as the number of viable cells diminishes due to the fact that the bacteria cells count increases eight-fold (8n) every time the yeast cell count doubles (2n).

Let's look at the definitions for the terms sanitary and sterile.  Sanitary means that most of the vegetative cells have been killed.  On the other hand, sterile means that all of the vegetative cells and all of the spores have been killed.  Boiled wort is between sanitary and sterile in that boiling kills all of the vegetative cells, but does not kill spores.

A liquid has to be raised to a temperature of 121C/250F and held there for 15 minutes in order to denature spores.   That temperature is impossible to reach at sea level because water changes phase from a liquid to a gas at 100C/212F at sea level (lower temperatures at elevations above sea level).   The phase change from a liquid to a gas requires a specific amount of heat potential.  This heat potential is known as the latent heat of vaporization.   The latent heat of vaporization of liquid is bounded by pressure.  If we raise the pressure under which a liquid is subjected, we increase the temperature at which the phase change to a gas occurs.  Autoclaving works by raising the internal temperature of a vessel above normal atmospheric pressure.  The phase change from a liquid to a gas is delayed until water reaches 121C/250F when the internal pressure of an autoclave or pressure cooker reaches 15 pounds per square inch (psi) above sea level atmospheric pressure, which is 14.7 psi, making standard autoclaving pressure 29.7 psi or a little over 2 bar.   

As an aside, the temperature at which water changes phases from a liquid to a gas decreases one degree Fahrenheit for every 540 feet above sea level; therefore, brewers who do not live on the coasts should not expect their thermometers to read 212F when water boils.  Water boils at 211F in my brewery.




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Re: Canned wort for the non-canner
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 11:50:12 PM »
Water boils at 211F in my brewery.

192°F in mine! 8)
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