[hopfenundmalz]

The 6 steps to enlightenment:

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Hatred
4) Guilt
5) Acceptance (of the Hatred)
6) Enlightenment

 

A Bill Murray quote from Caddy Shack comes to mind, which is nice.

[reverseapachemaster]

I was a very regular reader and frequent commenter here, until the lodo arguments began. It ruined the atmosphere and friendly discussion

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Don't leave, we can change.

[coolman26]

I was a very regular reader and frequent commenter here, until the lodo arguments began. It ruined the atmosphere and friendly discussion

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I agree with this. I remember years ago on the NB forum when I started, there was none of this negativity. I then moved to HBT and got sick of the negativity. I learned a lot from both places. I built my rig and learned the basics on the process. I came here and was blown away with the technical information here. It was like everyone was way past me and eager to share. Then it became this model of quicksand. The more you read, the higher your boots needed to be. You had to stop the crap from running in.  I think of all the people here that I never see posting anymore. People that had polite information to share. When the interactions became toxic, people hit the road. It isn’t only here, it is everywhere anymore. There is little respect anymore. Guess people needed my mother. A wack on the back of the thigh with her riding crop.....yup, it brought out a lot of yes sir, no ma’am. Sometimes it is hard to ignore. I used to use the Brewing forum for relaxation. Everyone has different goals and processes. It is YOUR goal as a brewer that is important. Everyone doesn’t strive for 48 Point beers on every batch. I’ve leaned a ton from the LODO topic. I don’t remember getting smashed because I fly sparge while on the NB forum. I almost didn’t renew my AHA membership. I renewed because this great hobby is in decline. Negativity will not grow it. Hobbies peak and fall, just look at golf. I can only hope the negativity can fall by the wayside.
PS, I’m drinking the absolute worst Kolsch I’ve made in years. There is joy in drinking my oxidized mistake. I don’t dump these beers I’ve made. I give them to friend that think they are fantastic. This leads me to my long and meandering point. No matter what you make, enjoy the damn hobby. Stop the nonsense!  You can stop by for a mouthful of oxidation. We can politely discuss how to never do an infusion step again.
As you were.......


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[Iliff Ave]

Kind of sad when the "song title game" thread gets the most posts... 

[Stevie]

Kind of sad when the "song title game" thread gets the most posts... 

Yes,  but give this thread time to get going. We are overdue for a low oxygen whinge session.

[denny]

So how do we take all these opinions and ideas and turn them into something positive?

[hopfenundmalz]

So how do we take all these opinions and ideas and turn them into something positive?

Everyone should remember the rule “Don’t be a dick”.

[denny]

So how do we take all these opinions and ideas and turn them into something positive?

Everyone should remember the rule “Don’t be a dick”.

Indeed.  I have a number of other comments, but I'd rather hear what others have to say than voice my own.

[coolman26]

So how do we take all these opinions and ideas and turn them into something positive?

Everyone should remember the rule “Don’t be a dick”.

Wish more modern day folks followed this advice.


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[coolman26]

So how do we take all these opinions and ideas and turn them into something positive?

I’m not sure Denny. I think these things kind of work themselves out. Maybe some of the ones that left because of the crap will return. It is hard to believe that Homebrew can bring out the d**k.  I get passionate, but not that.


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[homoeccentricus]

Look at it from the other side as well. There are quite a few people that were active on this forum that have gone pro-lodo and prefer to discuss that stuff somewhere else.

[leejoreilly]

Look at it from the other side as well. There are quite a few people that were active on this forum that have gone pro-lodo and prefer to discuss that stuff somewhere else.

What you say is true, Frank, but I think the point is how people should act, not where they should flee to, to find others who agree with them. I think this  sort of behavior is endemic today, not just on this forum: folks embrace opinions (valid or not), promulgate those opinions "publicly", and then rail against those who don't agree immediately. "You must accept my opinion as high, absolute truth - I can quote sources who agree with me", or "you must accept my opinion; it worked for me", and eventually "Your way is wrong because it's not my way".

The medium itself makes this kind of behavior easy. It provides a soapbox, but it's also basically anonymous, so one can act badly without fear of embarrassment, and then just go away when the temperature gets too high. Unfortunately, well behaved folks tend to leave the scene too.

My advice? question everything (including your own opinions), but expect to be questioned back. "Don't be a dick." Remember that opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one, but no one really wants to hear all about yours. And sometimes, when someone is being a dick, the best course may be to just ignore them ("Never wrestle with a pig; you just get muddy and the pig enjoys it")

-end of rant-

[Village Taphouse]

I've been brewing and reading & posting on forums for about 20 years and I think I have always seen some amount of generous knowledge sharing combined with a smaller amount of hostility... even from day 1.  I think it's an online thing where people realize that there are no consequences so they just say or do whatever they want.  Some of these people could be lit up and post some ungraceful things.  I've always tried to keep track of the people that I've had good interactions with so that I know when I'm getting good, honest information.  If I get a reply from someone I don't know I might be more careful but I still absorb it.  Remember too that it's always possible for people to take extended breaks from brewing because making beer is usually towards the bottom of one's priority list... especially with work, spouse, kids, house, cars, dogs, etc.  Also for me, I occasionally just get into a groove where I'm making a lot of same beers I usually make and I'm just brewing without much to share.  I brew A LOT (always 4 beers on tap and 4 beers in kegs "on-deck" along with other things in primary, etc) and so I may just BREW without posting a lot.  You have to learn to ignore the occasional 'ungraceful' post.  All that said, I'm happy to have contact with most of you here and on my main board (Brews-Bros) to knock ideas around.  Cheers Beerheads. 

[jimmykx250]

Look at it from the other side as well. There are quite a few people that were active on this forum that have gone pro-lodo and prefer to discuss that stuff somewhere else.

What you say is true, Frank, but I think the point is how people should act, not where they should flee to, to find others who agree with them. I think this  sort of behavior is endemic today, not just on this forum: folks embrace opinions (valid or not), promulgate those opinions "publicly", and then rail against those who don't agree immediately. "You must accept my opinion as high, absolute truth - I can quote sources who agree with me", or "you must accept my opinion; it worked for me", and eventually "Your way is wrong because it's not my way".

The medium itself makes this kind of behavior easy. It provides a soapbox, but it's also basically anonymous, so one can act badly without fear of embarrassment, and then just go away when the temperature gets too high. Unfortunately, well behaved folks tend to leave the scene too.

My advice? question everything (including your own opinions), but expect to be questioned back. "Don't be a dick." Remember that opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one, but no one really wants to hear all about yours. And sometimes, when someone is being a dick, the best course may be to just ignore them ("Never wrestle with a pig; you just get muddy and the pig enjoys it")

-end of rant-

I agree! This is a forum to learn and exchange ideas not get hot over someones opinion oh how they do their thing. Come shrare and keep it positive!

[homoeccentricus]

I have written this before, and it has been denied before, but I'll repeat: this was not simply a problem of behavior. It's my opinion that the lodo stuff was an attack on the prevailing RDWHAHB paradigm, which makes sense for an organisation like the AHA that wants to do good to as many homebrewers as possible, but does not satisfy people that want to brew the best possible beer with the most advanced scientifically backed techniques available to and/or adapted for homebrewers.  A couple of years ago I came here because it was the place where the then most advanced homebrewing techniques were discussed. This is no longer the case.