[gmac]

It looks like I will be making cider soon. We have about 4 large garbage cans (new ones) full of apples. I have a couple questions.
Sulphite?  Yes or no? 

Yeast? Anyone use EC-1118 wine yeast?  I happen to have some and it says its good for cider. I have had good luck with lager and ale yeast but if the wine yeast is as good or better than I will go that route or split batches.

Some things seem to suggest limiting O2. I was gonna press, strain and go immediately into carboys. Is that enough?  Will pitch immediately unless I need to sulphite.

Secondary and aging - necessary?

Watch for pictures.

[dmtaylor]

Sulfites to kill wild beasts?  Yes, good idea.  One tablet per gallon, wait 48 hours, then add your own yeast.

I have not tried the EC-1118 yet but a lot of people like it.  Personally my favorites are Cote des Blancs and good ole US-05.  In any case, fermenting cool in the 50s if possible and racking about once per week for the first month will help to maintain a little sweetness in the finished product, if you're interested in something other than a bone-dry white wine-like product.

Low and slow.  Time.  Patience.  These are all key things as far as I'm concerned.  Give it a good couple of months before bottling/kegging.  You don't need to age it.  Drink it when it tastes great, which will probably be like I said, a couple months.

Good luck!  Let us know how you like it.

[denny]

Sometimes I sulfite, sometimes I don't doesn't matter a lot, it seems, unless you want to do a wild fermentation.  In that case don't sulfite.  I've made both my best and worst ciders like that.

EC1118 will give you a dry, champagne like cider.  A lot of people like that.

Limit O2?  Never heard that, never done that.  OTOH, I don't do anything to add O2, either.

[HoosierBrew]

Limit O2?  Never heard that, never done that.  OTOH, I don't do anything to add O2, either.

+1

[dmtaylor]

Oxygen is not a consideration at all until fermentation nears completion, at which point your cider can easily turn to vinegar if any airborne acetobacter or other wild beasts find their way into your cider.  I've made some mighty tasty vinegar this way on accident!  But it's easy to avoid:

What you really want to do is ferment in non-permeable material (e.g., glass) and limit the head space as much as possible near the end of fermentation.  That being said, if you keep the cider cool in a refrigerator as I do, then everything should be fine, as acetobacter operates only at warmer temperatures.  I don't worry about head space or oxygen in my refrigerator very much at all.  At least not for the first several months.  After about 6 months, my cider fermented in the fridge in plastic containers begins to lose its alcohol and tastes watery (6 months! yeah, I'm lazy).  But other than that it's fine.  Bottle or keg it before that point and you'll be just fine.

So yeah.  Oxygen is a slight risk.  Your cider would love to turn to vinegar so you need to prevent that with headspace or coolness.  But it's very easy to prevent.

[denny]

Dave, I have fermented cider in buckets many times without a problem.

[dmtaylor]

Denny, so have I.  It'll work.  But it also pays to understand and mitigate risks.  And there are some.

[HoosierBrew]

I ferment ciders in a bucket for a month, then rack to a 5 gallon better bottle that fills it up to the top. So I guess I do limit O2 after fermentation. Never had any issues doing it this way.

[denny]

Denny, so have I.  It'll work.  But it also pays to understand and mitigate risks.  And there are some.

Absolutely correct!  Ans I never age ciders, which lasts a few months, in plastic.

[Jimmy K]

There are plenty of people who use champagne yeast and like it, but seems like anyone who has actually compared it to other yeasts prefers less aggressive strains. It will dry out and it's so neutral it strips away some fruit flavor. Premier cuvee is my favorite for its cold tolerance. You've probably heard that from me before. One of these days I want to try lager yeast as you've used.

[gmac]

I'm brewing with West Yorkshire tomorrow. I wonder what it would be like top cropped for cider?

I may even just order some cider yeast or even German lager. Made a great cider with it a few years ago.

[dmtaylor]

Honestly.... when it comes to cider, just about any yeast will do.  Ale yeast, cider yeast, mead yeast... it's all good.  They'll give different body and flavors, but it's not nearly the broad range of flavors from what you get in beer.  Examples: Use a Belgian or Trappist yeast in a cider?  Or a hefeweizen yeast?  It tastes like regular cider!  Where's the clove and banana?!  Sorry, you will NOT get any crazy unusual flavors from these yeasts when fermenting cider!  Reason is, the chemical constituents of cider are way different and far simpler than for beer.  They'll all get the job done, but the spectrum in flavor differences for cider, in my experience, is far narrower than for beer.

In other words, if you have a pack of yeast laying around, no matter which type, and you want to make a cider.... go for it.  It will turn out great.  Almost an absolute guarantee.

But do ferment low and slow.  That really does make a difference.  And even ale yeasts can ferment cold.  Try it.  It works.