[brewinhard]

Lactic Acid + a syringe the best way to go?

IMO, without a doubt.

+1.  Easier and more reliable. 

[BrodyR]

I just listened to the Czech Styles presentation in the 2015 conference seminars. In it Bob Hall recommends super soft water:

Carbonates: 15
Calcium: 7
Sulfates: 5
Magnesium: 2
Sodium: 2
Chloride: 2

Anyone ever go that soft?

[hopfenundmalz]

Run that through Brunwater, see where the mash pH is predicted. PU is said to do a triple decoction with an acid rest. They may add some Ca according to some reports. If you don't add the alkalinity it will help the pH fall lower.

[chumley]

I just listened to the Czech Styles presentation in the 2015 conference seminars. In it Bob Hall recommends super soft water:

Carbonates: 15
Calcium: 7
Sulfates: 5
Magnesium: 2
Sodium: 2
Chloride: 2

Anyone ever go that soft?

According to the city, my tap water is:

Calcium 8.1 mg/L
Magnesium 1.3 mg/l
Bicarbonate 35 mg/L
Sulfate 5.9 mg/L
Sodium 5.9 mg/L
Chloride Not available

So I go pretty close to that.

[mabrungard]

PU does add calcium salts to their water. Some anecdotal findings I recall from AJ Delange indicate that around 30 ppm chloride and 20 ppm calcium produce a more flavorful beer. I've done several light lagers with around 20 to 30 ppm calcium in the overall wort and they fermented and cleared well and they tasted very good. Brewing with much lower mineral content can leave the beer flavor bland. You need some...not much though.

[hopfenundmalz]

PU does add calcium salts to their water. Some anecdotal findings I recall from AJ Delange indicate that around 30 ppm chloride and 20 ppm calcium produce a more flavorful beer. I've done several light lagers with around 20 to 30 ppm calcium in the overall wort and they fermented and cleared well and they tasted very good. Brewing with much lower mineral content can leave the beer flavor bland. You need some...not much though.

Good info. I need to try brew one again.

[BrodyR]

Definitely good info - think next time I'll shoot for less than 20 Sulfate & Chloride and Calcium around 30. That and use lactic acid instead of acid malt.

[wobdee]

PU does add calcium salts to their water. Some anecdotal findings I recall from AJ Delange indicate that around 30 ppm chloride and 20 ppm calcium produce a more flavorful beer. I've done several light lagers with around 20 to 30 ppm calcium in the overall wort and they fermented and cleared well and they tasted very good. Brewing with much lower mineral content can leave the beer flavor bland. You need some...not much though.

This is about what I've been shooting for in my last few Czech lagers. Will be tapping soon.

[69franx]

I've been happy with low calcium in the recent lagers I've brewed. I've been using the technique built into the supporter's version of Bru'n Water where all the sparging minerals are added to the mashing water so that the mineral content in the mash is higher. The higher Ca and Mg content helps push down the mash pH so that less acid is used and that higher Ca content helps precipitate the oxalate. I generally aim for about 40 to 50 ppm Ca in the mash with the sparging minerals in there. The sparging water is left unmineralized and serves to dilute the overall ion content in the kettle wort.

I don't abide by someone's opinion that sulfate in noble-hopped beers is undesirable. Pilsner Urquel includes minor gypsum addition to their water and I think that a good Czech Pils needs a little bit of sulfate to help dry the beer finish. Certainly less than 20 ppm sulfate and chloride will be equal or higher.

With this approach, the beer has the opportunity to be soft and delicate and enable the malt to come through.

Martin, I like the idea of using this function but have some questions. If I set up the spreadsheet with both mash and sparge additions to get the mineral levels that I want, for my Märzen still needs a touch of lactic to hit 5.4pH. When I select to add sparge minerals to the mash, my pH falls very low, which your post suggests. This helps to eliminate the addition of lactic, but even without the acid, the sheet now shows my projected mash pH at 5.34. Do I need to add in some baking soda to get back to my goal of 5.4, or just run with the original additions minus the acid and be a little low? This would be the first time I used this function, so I just want to make certain that I understand all the nuances. Has anyone else run into this issue, and what did you do/ how did it work out for you?

[ynotbrusum]

I don't have my laptop available to me, so I can't reference the spreadsheet, but I think 5.34 would be fine for a Marzen.  In the case of a lighter lager, I would avoid baking soda additions - at least in the mash.  I usually can get it into the "zone" by reducing primary additions, which has the effect of reducing the pH drop.  But others may have better insight than me and I am willing to be corrected when it comes to water chemistry.  I know that some folks further treat the collected wort in the kettle to dial in the pH of the boil.