[Lazy Ant Brewing]

I recently brewed a BIAB 5- gal batch of stout with 11 lbs. of malted barley  (with 10 lbs of 2-row being the base) plus 1/2 lb. of roast barley and 1/2 lb.  of flaked wheat.  I did a single infusion mash at 153 F.

I used WLP013 London Ale Yeast plus 1 oz Cascade and 1/2 oz, of East Kent Goldings. Hops were added at the beginning of a 60 minute boil.

I really like the finished beer and got good reviews at a local beer club meeting and at a family reunion plus a request for the recipe.

I'm almost afraid to alter the recipe under the dictum of "If it ain't broke don't try to fix it" because I think its almost perfect for my tastes.

If I could make one change, I'd like to increase the citrus flavor just a bit  without making the beer more bitter from hops.  I like malt-forward brews.  If I used citra hops, the alpha acid content is much higher than the hops listed above. 

Could I use 1 oz of Cascade and 1/4 oz of Citra and still balance the malt bill, or perhaps up the citra to 1/2 oz and add more roast barley to help balance the hops and keep a malt -forward profile?

Are there other hops that provide more citrus flavor than cascade at a 5% to 7% alpha acid level?

Suggestions please and thanks in advance for your ideas.

[tesgüino]

Late boil, whirlpool or dry hops will give you the flavor and aroma you're after without the bitterness.

[hopfenundmalz]

Late boil, whirlpool or dry hops will give you the flavor and aroma you're after without the bitterness.

+1 on the dry hops. That will give max. aroma vs. all early boil additions as stated in the post.

[HoosierBrew]

+2

[curtism1234]

Late boil, whirlpool or dry hops will give you the flavor and aroma you're after without the bitterness.

The only potential problem with the hops though is aging, particularly the dry hops. I'm not sure what your plans are for the stout; you would have to drink them pretty quickly.

What about changing the yeast to get more fruit flavor? Maybe a Ringwood or Irish

[Lazy Ant Brewing]

For Curtism1234

The only potential problem with the hops though is aging, particularly the dry hops. I'm not sure what your plans are for the stout; you would have to drink them pretty quickly.

What if I did a 60-minute boil on the hops as I did in the recipe above, and then dry-hopped some additional cascade.  The original hops should be enough for good preservation and then the dry hops would add flavor.

[curtism1234]

For Curtism1234

The only potential problem with the hops though is aging, particularly the dry hops. I'm not sure what your plans are for the stout; you would have to drink them pretty quickly.

What if I did a 60-minute boil on the hops as I did in the recipe above, and then dry-hopped some additional cascade.  The original hops should be enough for good preservation and then the dry hops would add flavor.

Yeah, the 60min hops are going to preserve it.

Just like an IPA though, your aroma / flavoring hops are going to fade away within 6 months. The fresher the beer the better.
Now if you drink all of that batch in 4-6 months, you'll probably achieve what you're looking for. Longer than that, you're going to slowly revert back to the original beer you've been making. Probably not in a bad way though.

It depends how long your batch lasts you. With it being a rather large stout (from the sound of it), I didn't know if you have plans for aging your beer. You can still do that if you want, but don't expect much from the late additions in 12+ months.

[Lazy Ant Brewing]

I like it well enough I'll be through most of it within 6 months.

Thanks

[mainebrewer]

I've found that the flavor, which seems to be what you're after, from a 30 min hop stand (chill to ~170 degrees, add hops, stir occaisionally, resume chilling after 30 min) doesn't seem to fade as quickly as it does from dry hopping.

[HoosierBrew]

I've found that the flavor, which seems to be what you're after, from a 30 min hop stand (chill to ~170 degrees, add hops, stir occaisionally, resume chilling after 30 min) doesn't seem to fade as quickly as it does from dry hopping.

+1

[ultravista]

So the whirlpool additions impart longer lasting flavor/aroma than dry hopping?

[HoosierBrew]

So the whirlpool additions impart longer lasting flavor/aroma than dry hopping?

In the long term, yes IMO - but not as intense as dry. There's a difference in the character of each to me, though, so I do both. I still dry hop APAs and IPAs to get the intensity and dry hop character, but the whirlpool additions if done cool enough (sub 180F) give the beer a longer lasting aroma than dry hopping IMO. Dry hops while intense seem to fade quicker to me.

[erockrph]

Agreed on the hop stand recommendations, and it has also been my experience that whirlpool hops age better than dry hops. they also lend a lot more flavor than dry hops, which primarily impart aroma.

If you're looking for citrus, then I'd just use more Cascade in the whirlpool after chilling down to about 170F. This will add hop flavor without increasing the bitterness by any noticeable amount. Citra tends to add more mango than anything else (at least to my palate). Cascade has that classic C-hop white grapefruit note that should get you what you're after.