Author Topic: That's cheating  (Read 1080 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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That's cheating
« on: September 05, 2015, 03:03:16 PM »
Went to Girardin this morning to buy some bulk lambic. I talked to the Master himself and asked him about the water they use in the brewery. It appears that they have their own well and boil it down to precipitate the calcium, and that's it. When I told him I brew with water with low mineral content, and add brewing salts, his dry response was: "that's cheating."  ;)
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2015, 03:14:24 PM »
Something you do is always going to be cheating to someone.

And I'm jealous of the notion of buying bulk lambic.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2015, 03:15:33 PM »
Just the same, I think I'll keep 'cheating'.  ;)
Jon H.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 03:34:53 PM »
And I'm jealous

I also went to 3 Fonteinen to wait in line to buy 1 (one) 750ml bottle of Zenne y Frontera https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11953021_1163259000365968_6247101314288426411_n.jpg?oh=4490dd4c3101818f180038c17dc71fb4&oe=5666D9F1 -  a lambic blend on sherry barrels, made using the solera method  8)

I tried again to wait in line wearing a funny hat, but they saw right through me.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2015, 03:49:26 PM »
Just the same, I think I'll keep 'cheating'.  ;)
+1
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2015, 08:33:20 PM »
If he actually meant it, then he is without a clue on how water varies in areas of our country.  Is using bottled water also cheating? Using a carbon filter? RO system? He is fortunate to have good water like the guys in the northwest...most of the rest of us have to "cheat" to overcome local water problems that would preclude most beer styles.  If I had Lake Michigan water, for example, like suburbs that lie about 20 miles east of my house, I would be able to brew with de-chlorinated tap water, too.  And hey - he admits to boiling the water before use, so altering the water is already something he does.  Why would an additive of natural minerals be considered much different?
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2015, 10:16:26 PM »
I think he is simply using the traditional techniques to make real lambic, and anything that deviates from tradition is cheating.
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 01:36:31 AM »
And I'm jealous

I also went to 3 Fonteinen to wait in line to buy 1 (one) 750ml bottle of Zenne y Frontera https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11953021_1163259000365968_6247101314288426411_n.jpg?oh=4490dd4c3101818f180038c17dc71fb4&oe=5666D9F1 -  a lambic blend on sherry barrels, made using the solera method  8)

I tried again to wait in line wearing a funny hat, but they saw right through me.
That beer sounds good.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2015, 04:09:15 PM »
One man's "cheating" is another man's finely tuned technique.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2015, 06:52:00 PM »
Then sign me up as a "cheater" dawgone it!

Offline Werks21

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2015, 07:31:29 AM »
One man's "cheating" is another man's finely tuned technique.
+1

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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2015, 11:00:15 AM »
It appears that they have their own well and boil it down to precipitate the calcium,

My grasp on anorganic brewing chemistry is shaky, but why would you want to precipitate calcium? If I remember correctly, it interacts with mash phosphates, producing CaP04 and hydrogen ions. Hence, more calcium would render the wort more acidic. Less (because it was precipitated out during the boil) would mean a less acidic wort, which only makes sense if the pH was already quite low.

Apart from that, Ca++ also plays a role in enzymatic activity, right?

Just saying I'm confused about Calcium now.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2015, 11:11:35 AM »
It appears that they have their own well and boil it down to precipitate the calcium,

My grasp on anorganic brewing chemistry is shaky, but why would you want to precipitate calcium? If I remember correctly, it interacts with mash phosphates, producing CaP04 and hydrogen ions. Hence, more calcium would render the wort more acidic. Less (because it was precipitated out during the boil) would mean a less acidic wort, which only makes sense if the pH was already quite low.

Apart from that, Ca++ also plays a role in enzymatic activity, right?

Just saying I'm confused about Calcium now.

Just being sloppy, I meant decarbonation by boiling: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5792.msg69288#msg69288

"When the CO2 is driven off, the CaCO3 will precipitate out of the water".
Frank P.

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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 11:12:52 AM »
Just being sloppy

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: That's cheating
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 11:21:42 AM »
Just being sloppy

Are you okay? I'm worried about you now.

Nervous. Forgot to put my bottle of 3F Zenne y Frontera in the safe  :(
Frank P.

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