Author Topic: Interesting Flavor Not Use to  (Read 1174 times)

Offline PAYCHECK

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Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« on: September 05, 2015, 03:06:29 PM »
Hi Forum, this is my first post but I have been a member for some time now.  I just brewed a new beer in my arsenal called "Moonlight Honey Wheat Hef" which I have listed the ingredients below for.  This was an all grain brew, fermentation temperature was between 60-71 deg. F.

  • using white wheat rahr,
  • American 2 Row
  • Carapils Breiss
  • Clover honey
  • Saaz hop Pellets
  • Fresh Lemon rind
  • Safeale yeats
  • Irish moss

My problem is this, I bottled the beer, it was four weeks in fermentation, then 3 weeks in the bottle, then one week in refrigeration.  We opened a bottle last night to a beautiful golden wheat beer with a nice white creamy head on it.  As usual I took a big sniff first and noticed a slight off odor, like that of medicine.  After letting the beer rest a bit, I tried again, and found the smell to be citrus mixed with alcohol, the two combined is a medicinal smell.

I am wondering why this is happening and if it is as simple as just letting the beer treat longer in the bottles before opening it.  the flavor is not sour or dank it is just not what I would have expected and am looking for some clarification on this.  P.S> the addition of fresh lemon rind was my idea and am wondering if that is what is making this happen.  I have read that too high of a ferm temp could cause a banana flavor, this was more citrus, apricot with alcohol?

Thank you
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 03:19:51 PM by PAYCHECK »
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2015, 03:28:57 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!
Dave

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2015, 08:38:12 PM »
Dave is right about chlorine - easily solved on your next batch, but not this one, unfortunately.  Just as importantly, welcome to the forum!  If you are like most of us here, you'll enjoy the hobby to the point of obsession, if not outright lifestyle.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2015, 09:37:10 PM »
I've used lemon and orange zest before and haven't experienced a medicinal flavor or aroma from that. But as mentioned, if your water source had chlorine or chloramine in it, that will easily create that medicinal effect. If your water is from a municipal water system, it is required by law to have some sort of disinfectant residual in the water and unless you took measures to remove it, that is the likely cause of your medicinal effect.

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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 01:26:26 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!
Will a pinch of metbisulfate also work?
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2015, 01:31:23 PM »
Campden tablets = potassium metabisulfate

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2015, 04:00:33 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!

If your water has chlorine (not chloramine) all you have to do is put the water in an open container and let it set overnight.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 04:33:07 PM »
There's a really good chance that this is a chlorophenol issue which OP could rule out by addressing his or her water supply and treatment.

It could be that OP smells/tastes the yeast phenols or combination of phenols and citrus oils as medicinal.

In either case it's not an issue that is going to go away with time.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2015, 05:57:01 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!

If your water has chlorine (not chloramine) all you have to do is put the water in an open container and let it set overnight.

True.  But also true, fortunately, is that Campden is very cheap, and works on both regular hypochlorite AND chloramine.  A little dab'll do ya.
Dave

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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2015, 06:46:39 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!
Will a pinch of metbisulfate also work?

Yes.  Before I switched to all RO water I was using potassium metabisulfate powder and found it quite easy to use.  1/16 tsp/10 gallons of tap water completely eliminated all chloramine smell and flavor almost instantly.  Just give it a good stir into your measured out water and take a small sample to check for treatment by splashing into a clean glass and smelling it.   

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2015, 07:19:00 PM »
Campden tablets = potassium metabisulfate
Ah...well...there ya go
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Offline santoch

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 12:20:59 AM »
Exactly which yeast did you use?
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Offline PAYCHECK

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 03:40:57 AM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!
dmtaylor thank you for your insightful answer to my problem.  I am assuming this will not go away with age int eh beer so my only alternative is to throw the batch that I bottled away and start over right?  Damn, I am finished with two books out of the four of water yeast hops and malt, unfortunately water and yeast are left to read.  Oh well live and learn.  I have not noticed this in any of the other beers I have been brewing, is this only a symptom of Hef's? as I have brewed stouts, pilsners, american ales, IPA's etc. with no off tastes like this.
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Offline PAYCHECK

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 03:41:55 AM »
Exactly which yeast did you use?
Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35.49 ml], also i noticed that my fermentation was right around 70 deg. F.  My next batch I am going to try and cool to 65 deg. F.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Interesting Flavor Not Use to
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 01:07:19 PM »
It's most likely the water.  It's from chlorine reacting with constituents of the malt to form something called chlorophenols.  If you didn't treat your water for chlorine, then this has got to be it.  And fortunately, it is very very easy to get rid of chlorine in your water in the future.  Before you begin your mash, all your water needs to be treated either through carbon filtration or even easier is 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallons, crushed and added to your water immediately prior to use.  Then this will never happen again!!
dmtaylor thank you for your insightful answer to my problem.  I am assuming this will not go away with age int eh beer so my only alternative is to throw the batch that I bottled away and start over right?  Damn, I am finished with two books out of the four of water yeast hops and malt, unfortunately water and yeast are left to read.  Oh well live and learn.  I have not noticed this in any of the other beers I have been brewing, is this only a symptom of Hef's? as I have brewed stouts, pilsners, american ales, IPA's etc. with no off tastes like this.

Are you using city municipal water?  It can change over time.  I know a guy who works for our water system in my city and he says they chlorinate heavily twice per year in the spring and the autumn.  Your own city's schedule could be similar, or entirely different.  But it is possible that on this batch you hit a chlorine surge.  That's what happened to me 15 years ago when I began to use Campden.  Before that, I was just lucky.

Another reason it might be specific to this batch is that the WLP300 yeast generates a lot more phenols than normal yeasts.  These phenols actually taste great, like cloves.  However, once the phenols combine chemically with chlorine to form chlorophenol, it will taste like medicine.

And yes, it is irreversible.  You might indeed need to dump this batch and start over.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.