Author Topic: zero headspace below the cap  (Read 899 times)

Offline dilluh98

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zero headspace below the cap
« on: September 07, 2015, 05:19:02 PM »
I’ve noticed several recent bottle-conditioned Belgian ales and Saisons I’ve bought have nearly zero headspace below the cap. Is this to increase volume of dissolved CO2, a method to reduce oxidation for long term storage or both? I’ve only seen this on cap-style bombers, not on corks. Also, does anyone have a good source for normal cap size bombers that are thick enough to handle > 3.0 volumes of CO2 for such beers? I reuse many thicker glass bombers but they often have a bulge below the lip that makes capping difficult.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 06:19:39 PM »
Check out the crown finish belgian 750ml bottles. Available at most suppliers.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 06:59:39 PM »
I have not seen these extra high fills.  How was the carbonation on them when poured?

BTW, I have not had any issues bottling beer in normal 12 oz LHBS brown bottles as well as 22 oz normal bombers with volumes as high as 3.6.  YMMV...so always be careful where need be. 

Offline dilluh98

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 12:32:48 AM »
The carbonation was great. Nice big rocky head you'd expect from a Belgian. It was just very odd to open the cap to see beer right at the top brim full. Didn't gush or anything but poured wonderfully. The last one I opened this way was a golden Belgian ale from Pelican Brewery in Pacific City, OR. Maybe it was a mistake but I think not since I've had a similar thing happen from a different brewery doing bottle-conditioned Belgian ales (the name is escaping me right now...).

Online HoosierBrew

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 12:10:43 PM »
 Kelsey McNair said in his 2015 NHC presentation that he fills his IPA comp bottles (from keg) right to the top, to minimize potential oxidation to the hop aromas from the headspace - ie., no headspace.
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 12:33:22 PM »
Kelsey McNair said in his 2015 NHC presentation that he fills his IPA comp bottles (from keg) right to the top, to minimize potential oxidation to the hop aromas from the headspace - ie., no headspace.

I see this a lot in competition. I can't remember one that has been oxidized in any way or that didn't have proper carbonation.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 12:59:25 PM »
I’ve noticed several recent bottle-conditioned Belgian ales and Saisons I’ve bought have nearly zero headspace below the cap.

How do you know they were bottle-conditioned? Seems like the procedure for force-carbonated.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2015, 03:05:16 PM »
I’ve noticed several recent bottle-conditioned Belgian ales and Saisons I’ve bought have nearly zero headspace below the cap.

How do you know they were bottle-conditioned? Seems like the procedure for force-carbonated.

It said bottle conditioned on the label and there was a healthy skim of yeast at the bottom of the bottle.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 04:02:03 PM »
Kelsey McNair said in his 2015 NHC presentation that he fills his IPA comp bottles (from keg) right to the top, to minimize potential oxidation to the hop aromas from the headspace - ie., no headspace.

Yes, but that is force-carbonated beer. With bottle conditioning the yeast will consume the oxygen under the cap and oxidation will be minimized.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 04:42:30 PM »
Kelsey McNair said in his 2015 NHC presentation that he fills his IPA comp bottles (from keg) right to the top, to minimize potential oxidation to the hop aromas from the headspace - ie., no headspace.

Yes, but that is force-carbonated beer. With bottle conditioning the yeast will consume the oxygen under the cap and oxidation will be minimized.

This is true, but why not get rid of even more oxygen by filling that headspace? At the home-brew scale this isn't too big of a deal - just bop the bottle filler tip near the rim of the bottle until completely full. In this case, effectively all of the CO2 produced from the sugar will have to remain in solution and it should prime faster as there is no headspace for CO2 to escape to. Would this alter, significantly, priming sugar calculations? Perhaps you would need a bit less sugar as none of the CO2 is "wasted" filling/pressurizing the headspace? I don't know... just thinking out loud.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 05:50:40 PM »
This thread makes me think about the debate over oxidation when bottle conditioning. Some say it most definitely can happen, but others say that the yeast scrub it. I think somewhere in the middle is the truth. I think bamforth says that a healthy active fermentation will negate the effects of hot side, but does that equate to any fermentation scrubbing all O2? I wouldn't call bottle conditioning much of a healthy active fermentation. I don't see much krausen
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 05:53:59 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline dilluh98

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Re: zero headspace below the cap
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2015, 06:13:30 PM »
I may be misremembering but I thought I remember Mark commenting that yeast utilize post fermentation O2 through a different energetic pathway. To add another question - are those O2 scavenging caps just snake oil? Even if they do work, can anyone reliably tell the difference between that O2 removal method and allowing the yeast to supposedly consume the O2?