Author Topic: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?  (Read 1193 times)

Offline Pi

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thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« on: September 21, 2015, 11:12:57 PM »
what's a good number to use? I'm doing for the first time in a cooler. Using ProMash. Will .05 get me in the ballpark?
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Offline Stevie

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 11:14:36 PM »
Beersmith lists .3 as a good starting point for plastic mashtuns.bi pre-heat, so I don't know if that is accurate.

Offline Pi

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 11:21:33 PM »
Gotten spoiled with my RIMS. How on earth did a mortal brewer survive sans-PID???
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Offline kramerog

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 11:35:22 PM »
I think you are best off ignoring the thermal mass except for your manifold and that you can probably ignore too. 

Offline case thrower

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 01:37:08 AM »
I'm using Brewtarget.  In the equipment editor under mash tun, it asks for volume, mass (which is basically the weight of your mash tun) and the specific heat (cal/g*K).  The manual cites as "typical values":
Aluminum - 0.215
Copper - 0.092
Iron/Steel - 0.108
Plastic - 0.359.
Hope that helps.
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Offline mainebrewer

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 11:19:12 PM »
I preheat my 50 qt cooler with 2 gal of 180 degree water.
It sits in the cooler while I get everything else ready to mash in, maybe 15 min.
It reduces my thermal mass to "0".

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Offline tommymorris

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 11:14:09 AM »
I mash in a 5G Igloo cooler.

I ignore Beersmith's recommended strike temp and add 21F to my desired mash temp.

I recently messed around and found settings, post facto, that would have worked for my last 2 brews. Tun mass = 5.5#, tun specific heat = 0.55 Cal/g•C. We'll see if these hold up for me over time.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2015, 12:56:48 PM »
I preheat my 50 qt cooler with 2 gal of 180 degree water.
It sits in the cooler while I get everything else ready to mash in, maybe 15 min.
It reduces my thermal mass to "0".

I do pretty much the same.  I run about 4 gallons of water heater hot water (I haven't checked what that temp is) into the cooler and let it sit while the mash water heats up.  I drain it right before mash in. 

Works great!

Paul
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2015, 01:05:26 PM »
I ignore Beersmith's recommended strike temp and add 21F to my desired mash temp.


+1.  Strike temp calculators usually made me undershoot my mash temps, which I hate. I'd rather add ice cubes to come down a degree or two F if need be. So I bring the cooler tun in from the garage the night before to come to house temp (lid open) and add ~ 16 dF to target mash temp. For my system and process it works much more accurately.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 07:09:01 PM »
I preheat my 50 qt cooler with 2 gal of 180 degree water.
It sits in the cooler while I get everything else ready to mash in, maybe 15 min.
It reduces my thermal mass to "0".

I do pretty much the same.  I run about 4 gallons of water heater hot water (I haven't checked what that temp is) into the cooler and let it sit while the mash water heats up.  I drain it right before mash in. 

Works great!

Paul

In either of these scenarios, is this pre-heating water used in combination with the strike water, or tossed? What temp is your tun at then, or do you not need to worry about it? I am using Beersmith for my own sanity, and can tell it not to adjust for equipment temp, its just that every time I tried to pre-heat, I had no idea what temp to tell it my equipment was at. I have been using the same method as Jon, and telling beersmith I am at whatever ambient was and going from there and it has worked out well. I am never on the cold side but have been high by 2-5° ac ouple times though. I guess from the rest of the thoughts here are that I just need to figure out what my equipment needs and let the software get me in the ball park
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Offline Stevie

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 07:18:42 PM »
I just overshoot my strike temp a bit and allow it to come down on its own. If I need a strike temp of 160°, I beat my water to 165-168° to cover the heat sink of the tun & the buckets I use to measure the water. Normally it takes about 10 minutes to get where I need it.

Offline 69franx

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2015, 07:20:52 PM »
Steve, be careful of who sees you beating your water
 :o
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Offline Stevie

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 07:33:26 PM »

Steve, be careful of who sees you beating your water
 :o
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Offline arustyt

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2015, 06:16:36 PM »
I preheat my 50 qt cooler with 2 gal of 180 degree water.
It sits in the cooler while I get everything else ready to mash in, maybe 15 min.
It reduces my thermal mass to "0".

I do pretty much the same.  I run about 4 gallons of water heater hot water (I haven't checked what that temp is) into the cooler and let it sit while the mash water heats up.  I drain it right before mash in. 

Works great!

Paul

In either of these scenarios, is this pre-heating water used in combination with the strike water, or tossed? What temp is your tun at then, or do you not need to worry about it? I am using Beersmith for my own sanity, and can tell it not to adjust for equipment temp, its just that every time I tried to pre-heat, I had no idea what temp to tell it my equipment was at. I have been using the same method as Jon, and telling beersmith I am at whatever ambient was and going from there and it has worked out well. I am never on the cold side but have been high by 2-5° ac ouple times though. I guess from the rest of the thoughts here are that I just need to figure out what my equipment needs and let the software get me in the ball park
I use the preheat method and tell BS not to adjust for equipment temp, dumping the preheat water right before mashing in.   This works pretty well unless I am doing a multi step mash, e.g. a protein rest.  Then I still preheat to the lower rest temp, tell BS that my MT temp is the initial mash target temp, and let BS adjust for equipment for subsequent additions. 
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Offline mainebrewer

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Re: thermal mass for Gott 10gallon?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 11:32:24 AM »
The water I use to pre-heat my mash tun is not included in the strike water.
I pour it out of the tun and mix it with Starsan for sanitizing.
I use ProMash so I can't help with other brew programs.
In  ProMash, I set the thermal mass setting to "0".
That gets me where I need to be when I mash in.
As noted by others, there is some trial and error, even when using a computerized brew program.
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