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Author Topic: The way you use your yeast...  (Read 12815 times)

RPIScotty

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2015, 09:37:03 am »
DeClerk stated that 1 gram of extract contains enough carbon to grow 1 billion cells. Other scientists have bumped that number up to around 1.5 billion cells per gram (both growth rates are bounded by culture volume).  Given the room to grow and enough dissolved O2 to support cell heath, we can expect to be able to grow between 75 and 112.5 billion cells with a 7.5% (1.030) 1L starter. A 1L 10% starter contains enough carbon to grow between 100 and 150 billion cells, which pretty much ensures that there is enough carbon to approach, it not reach maximum cell density with a young White Labs vial.  I suspect that a well-swollen Wyeast smack pack will reach maximum cell density due to the fact that it has a built-in first-level starter.  In the grand scheme of things, the difference between 75 billion and 100 billion cells is insignificant due to the fact that yeast biomass grows exponentially. We have to get to a point where the difference in cell counts is a couple of multiples before we see a significant difference in performance.

Mark,

Does this scale linearly? I really like the idea of a low tech starter method but tend, due to time and space constraints, to stick with my small batches (~1 gal). In lieu of using yeast calculators, how can I scale this method to my batch sizes and get similar results?

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2015, 10:05:53 am »
Does anyone here play guitar? I frequent the various Les Paul guitar forums around the internet, and being that I am an electrical engineer, I tend to get involved in discussions concerning electrical components in guitar circuits. One in particular that gets a considerable amount of attention and attracts a considerable amount of debate is the use of different types of capacitors (with different dielectric compositions) in passive tone controls circuits. Often there are spirited debates between engineers like myself and the various die hard guitar players (pros and hobbyists) over whether these different compositions can affect the tone of the instrument, specifically the high frequency content of the output signal.

Do you enjoy starting flame wars?  That's an area where no electric guitar playing engineer with a sense of self preservation dares tread.  The average guitarist believes that the tone capacitor is part of an simple RC treble cut circuit when it is actually part of an RLC circuit that is formed by the tone potentiometer, tone capacitor, and the pickup coil resistance, inductance, and self-capacitance.  In reality, the tone capacitor is not directly in the signal path.  What is does is shift the resonant frequency of the circuit down in frequency (i.e., lowers the frequency where the pickup is loudest for non-engineering types).  If it was a simple RC treble circuit as most guitarists believe, then there would a significant loss of signal from the magnetic transducer.  Any difference in performance between capacitors can be traced to different measured values or construction-related nonlinearities.


Returning to the topic at hand...

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2015, 10:08:18 am »
Does this scale linearly?

From what I have seen, it does scale linearly.  However, then again, I have not attempted to make a starter for a 350bbl fermentation. :)

RPIScotty

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2015, 11:15:03 am »
Does anyone here play guitar? I frequent the various Les Paul guitar forums around the internet, and being that I am an electrical engineer, I tend to get involved in discussions concerning electrical components in guitar circuits. One in particular that gets a considerable amount of attention and attracts a considerable amount of debate is the use of different types of capacitors (with different dielectric compositions) in passive tone controls circuits. Often there are spirited debates between engineers like myself and the various die hard guitar players (pros and hobbyists) over whether these different compositions can affect the tone of the instrument, specifically the high frequency content of the output signal.

Do you enjoy starting flame wars?  That's an area where no electric guitar playing engineer with a sense of self preservation dares tread.  The average guitarist believes that the tone capacitor is part of an simple RC treble cut circuit when it is actually part of an RLC circuit that is formed by the tone potentiometer, tone capacitor, and the pickup coil resistance, inductance, and self-capacitance.  In reality, the tone capacitor is not directly in the signal path.  What is does is shift the resonant frequency of the circuit down in frequency (i.e., lowers the frequency where the pickup is loudest for non-engineering types).  If it was a simple RC treble circuit as most guitarists believe, then there would a significant loss of signal from the magnetic transducer.  Any difference in performance between capacitors can be traced to different measured values or construction-related nonlinearities.


Returning to the topic at hand...

Well done sir. Well Done.  ;D

Now convince a community of the most dogmatic individuals you have ever met that the thing they are "hearing" when they use old Sprague PIO caps is vintage "magic". I don't bother to jump in anymore! Engineers on these forums are normally lambasted as having deficient hearing or being "tin-eared" for there inability to hear the subtle nuances. Comical really.

Does this scale linearly?

From what I have seen, it does scale linearly.  However, then again, I have not attempted to make a starter for a 350bbl fermentation. :)

Thank you. Will try this on my next 1 gal batch. Should be about a 1L container necessary. I think I may have a 1/2 gallon glass jar and cap downstairs......
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 11:17:35 am by RPIScotty »

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2015, 11:17:44 am »
My threads tend to wind in and out of various topics and occasionally turn into trainwrecks so I'm glad that things are going as usual.  :D  I was about to ask Mark about his feelings about Starsan (I truly don't know what they are) but I thought that may be too many forks in this thread.  Cheers Beerheads.
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Offline denny

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2015, 11:38:52 am »
My threads tend to wind in and out of various topics and occasionally turn into trainwrecks so I'm glad that things are going as usual.  :D  I was about to ask Mark about his feelings about Starsan (I truly don't know what they are) but I thought that may be too many forks in this thread.  Cheers Beerheads.

Start a new thread!
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2015, 11:53:06 am »
My threads tend to wind in and out of various topics and occasionally turn into trainwrecks so I'm glad that things are going as usual.  :D  I was about to ask Mark about his feelings about Starsan (I truly don't know what they are) but I thought that may be too many forks in this thread.  Cheers Beerheads.

Start a new thread!
Well, has it been covered?  If so, does anyone have a link?  In my early brewing days I used Iodophor as my sanitizer and switched to Starsan at some point.  I have been brewing for 16 years and it's probably been at least 12 years that I've been using Starsan.
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2015, 12:02:49 pm »
Does anyone here play guitar? I frequent the various Les Paul guitar forums around the internet, and being that I am an electrical engineer, I tend to get involved in discussions concerning electrical components in guitar circuits. One in particular that gets a considerable amount of attention and attracts a considerable amount of debate is the use of different types of capacitors (with different dielectric compositions) in passive tone controls circuits. Often there are spirited debates between engineers like myself and the various die hard guitar players (pros and hobbyists) over whether these different compositions can affect the tone of the instrument, specifically the high frequency content of the output signal.

Do you enjoy starting flame wars?  That's an area where no electric guitar playing engineer with a sense of self preservation dares tread.  The average guitarist believes that the tone capacitor is part of an simple RC treble cut circuit when it is actually part of an RLC circuit that is formed by the tone potentiometer, tone capacitor, and the pickup coil resistance, inductance, and self-capacitance.  In reality, the tone capacitor is not directly in the signal path.  What is does is shift the resonant frequency of the circuit down in frequency (i.e., lowers the frequency where the pickup is loudest for non-engineering types).  If it was a simple RC treble circuit as most guitarists believe, then there would a significant loss of signal from the magnetic transducer.  Any difference in performance between capacitors can be traced to different measured values or construction-related nonlinearities.


Returning to the topic at hand...
Mark, I disagree. The AVERAGE guitarist has no clue what you just said.

Offline Stevie

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The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2015, 12:26:57 pm »
My threads tend to wind in and out of various topics and occasionally turn into trainwrecks so I'm glad that things are going as usual.  :D  I was about to ask Mark about his feelings about Starsan (I truly don't know what they are) but I thought that may be too many forks in this thread.  Cheers Beerheads.

Start a new thread!
Well, has it been covered?  If so, does anyone have a link?  In my early brewing days I used Iodophor as my sanitizer and switched to Starsan at some point.  I have been brewing for 16 years and it's probably been at least 12 years that I've been using Starsan.

He has covered it before. He is a bleach user and feels starsan gets more credit than it deserves in brewing. I'm sure you can find a thread or three where he explains why he feels that way.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2015, 12:27:01 pm »
Mark, I disagree. The AVERAGE guitarist has no clue what you just said.

You can blame it on Nikola Tesla. :)

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2015, 12:31:06 pm »
He has covered it before. He is a bleach user and feels starsan gets more credit than it deserves in brewing. I'm sure you can find a thread or three where he explains why he feels that way.

Actually, I am a bleach and iodophor user. :)  I have been using more iodophor than bleach lately.  Martin B has me thinking about trying home-brewed peracetic acid.


Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2015, 12:36:40 pm »
You can blame it on Nikola Tesla. :)

I think I saw him in concert in the late 80's - lots of crappy shows back then.   ;)


EDIT -  Yes, I know who he was.   ;D
Jon H.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2015, 12:37:52 pm »
Well, has it been covered?  If so, does anyone have a link?  In my early brewing days I used Iodophor as my sanitizer and switched to Starsan at some point.  I have been brewing for 16 years and it's probably been at least 12 years that I've been using Starsan.

If you have not encountered any problems in 12 years, then you do not have anything to worry about.  I had a run in with a wild yeast strain, which is how I discovered StarSan's Achilles heel. In a nutshell, StarSan is an acid-anionic sanitizer.  Due to their mode of action (attraction to cells with a positive charge), acid-anionic sanitizers are not effective yeast and mold killers.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 10:03:41 am by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Phil_M

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2015, 12:42:37 pm »
As for the tone circuit on a guitar, removing one didn't seem to change the tone in any way. But my hearing has born the brunt of loud amps and jet noise, so what do I know?

I think the best take on star san is to repeat Denny's mantra of evaluate it for yourself. It isn't perfect, but it seems to work for me enough of the time. From what I've learned from Mark, I have a plan B to fall back on.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: The way you use your yeast...
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2015, 12:48:09 pm »
Other than the fact that it want's to stain anything porous, 12.5ppm iodophor is just as easy to use as Star San, and it is a halogen-based sanitizer that kills everything.  Bleach and vinegar are easy to use as well, but sodium hypochlorite is shrouded in too much myth within the home brewing community to ask people to give it a shot.  Anyone who can taste 62ppb decomposed sodium hypcholorite (worst case scenario) is a gifted individual.