Author Topic: Speed Pils  (Read 1174 times)

Offline ynotbrusum

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Speed Pils
« on: September 26, 2015, 03:08:41 PM »
Trying a 45 minute mash 45 minute boil then Brulosopher lager regimen on a German Northern Pilsto see how this speed approach will work Gotta run - this was a quick brew day before an Okto party today.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2015, 03:52:55 PM »
Trying a 45 minute mash 45 minute boil then Brulosopher lager regimen on a German Northern Pilsto see how this speed approach will work Gotta run - this was a quick brew day before an Okto party today.
Looking forward to the outcome!

Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2015, 04:22:52 PM »
Trying a 45 minute mash 45 minute boil then Brulosopher lager regimen on a German Northern Pilsto see how this speed approach will work Gotta run - this was a quick brew day before an Okto party today.

I've been using a 45 minute mash for years with good results.
A 45 minute boil could be a problem with pilsner malt.
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Offline denny

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2015, 04:48:37 PM »
Trying a 45 minute mash 45 minute boil then Brulosopher lager regimen on a German Northern Pilsto see how this speed approach will work Gotta run - this was a quick brew day before an Okto party today.

I've been using a 45 minute mash for years with good results.
A 45 minute boil could be a problem with pilsner malt.

If you do a vigorous boil and get decent boiloff it shouldn't be a problem.  For me, a 45 min, mash would more likely be an issue.  Not becasue you won't get conversion in 45 min. (you almost certainly will), but becasue for a pils I prefer the dextrin profile I get from a longer mash.  It's not a huge difference, though.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2015, 05:33:53 PM »
In my pea brain... at X temperature SMM is converted to DMS. The rolling boil drives it off because it is quite volitile. Its debateable precisely how much SMM is in the grain and how long it takes until its completely gone, making it impossible to create new DMS. I rather doubt that it magically always takes 90 minutes to convert all SMM regardless of cultivar or maltster. So, a couple ways to limit DMS is to boil uncovered, or with a condensation drip tube. But what about SMM to DMS during the time between flame out and reaching a low enough temp that its not converting anymore? It seems to me that how rapidly you can chill is the most important thing, if you are boiling for a short enough time that SMM still exists in the wort.

Of course, this is all just my pea brain putting together assumptions based on hearsay.

The other things to keep in mind is that the final boil gravity won't be the same as with a 90 min. Post boil pH will probably be slightly different than with a 90 min. Color may be slightly lighter than with 90. Hard to get a 60 min hop charge at 45 min, it might need more hops to get the IBUs, and therefore it might have more hop flavor. Just stuff like that, seems like.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 05:37:49 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline denny

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2015, 05:46:33 PM »
My pea brain agrees with your pea brain.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2015, 06:02:02 PM »
My pea brain agrees with your pea brain.
That settles it then, lol.

If two brewers brewed identical pils beers and one got DMS but the other didn't,  (assuming rolling boil and no lid which is kinda basic) my first suspect would be sensitivity threshold and/or lack of palate experience. My second suspect would be difference in wort chilling speed. If they weren't identical, but merely similar, I suppose my 3rd suspect might be different maltsters/cultivars.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2015, 08:32:57 PM »
Yea, I upped the bittering charge by a third, boiled the snot out of it for 45, and speed chilled with a Hydra Chiller.  Didn't think about dextrins from a longer lower mash - this will be a pretty light beer, so maybe it will be watery...I will report back when it is done!
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2015, 06:58:44 PM »
I think Denny was referring to reducing the dextrin amounts with a longer mash.  When mashing cooler, it can sometimes take the enzymes a bit longer to fully break apart those last few longer chained starches into those easily fermentable sugars that our yeasty friends love. 

A shorter mash would most likely leave some dextrins behind.  You may or may not notice it in the final mouthfeel or body of the beer so please report back with your results.  A pilsner is a great beer for this trial.

Offline denny

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2015, 08:23:16 PM »
I think Denny was referring to reducing the dextrin amounts with a longer mash.  When mashing cooler, it can sometimes take the enzymes a bit longer to fully break apart those last few longer chained starches into those easily fermentable sugars that our yeasty friends love. 

A shorter mash would most likely leave some dextrins behind.  You may or may not notice it in the final mouthfeel or body of the beer so please report back with your results.  A pilsner is a great beer for this trial.

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Offline blatz

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2015, 05:46:55 PM »
My second suspect would be difference in wort chilling speed. If they weren't identical, but merely similar, I suppose my 3rd suspect might be different maltsters/cultivars.

I whirlpool at 180-190 for a half hour before chilling, and I think a lot of pro breweries do the same or longer, how does that coincide with what youre saying?
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rabeb25

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2015, 08:42:06 PM »
My second suspect would be difference in wort chilling speed. If they weren't identical, but merely similar, I suppose my 3rd suspect might be different maltsters/cultivars.

I whirlpool at 180-190 for a half hour before chilling, and I think a lot of pro breweries do the same or longer, how does that coincide with what youre saying?

Why?

Offline blatz

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2015, 08:56:55 PM »
Why?

leave as much hot break and hop debris behind as possible.
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rabeb25

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 09:19:04 PM »
Why?

leave as much hot break and hop debris behind as possible.
But why wouldn't you do that at pitch temp?... You would get rid of even more break.

Offline blatz

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Re: Speed Pils
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 09:30:15 PM »
Would love to but can't.  Blichmann kettle with electric element and Hopblocker.  I chill using two stage CFC. 

I could try not whirlpooling and run immediately into the kettle.  Been scared to, given some of the warnings
about clogging.  Have had this system for 3 years now and have just resorted to this as my process but am open to suggestions.
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