Author Topic: Shaken not stirred lager starter?  (Read 18806 times)

Offline Pi

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2015, 01:47:37 pm »
I want to try this method. I did a Vienna last weekend using my standard stir plate method. Its chugging along after 3 days at 50* but seems a little sluggish. If I were to do the same recipe again Using this method, could i grow a healthy crop using a little slurry from this sluggish batch, or should I start over using a fresh vial of WLP830?
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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2015, 02:56:57 pm »
I would just repitch the slurry straight.  No yeast culture performs its best on the initial pitch.

Offline beersk

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2015, 05:54:06 pm »
Also an engineer and also trying this for my 1 gal batches next time. I've got another baby on the way but we will see when I can brew next! Count me in on the "Shake it like Thorogood from one Bourbon, one Scotch and one Beer is my tenant" method.


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*Off topic*

You're Derek, aren't you? If so, what happened to your old name/account? I recognize the bit that is under your username.

*On topic*

Mark, it's good to know it's not just me that experiences a sluggish fermentation and not as good a beer from a first generation. It's kind of annoying really.
Jesse

Offline Stevie

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2015, 06:01:16 pm »

You're Derek, aren't you? If so, what happened to your old name/account? I recognize the bit that is under your username.

Dude!!! Now the FBI will need to relocate him again. Good going.

Offline beersk

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2015, 06:01:57 pm »

You're Derek, aren't you? If so, what happened to your old name/account? I recognize the bit that is under your username.

Dude!!! Now the FBI will need to relocate him again. Good going.
Sh*t...what've I done!
Jesse

RPIScotty

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2015, 06:04:16 pm »
Also an engineer and also trying this for my 1 gal batches next time. I've got another baby on the way but we will see when I can brew next! Count me in on the "Shake it like Thorogood from one Bourbon, one Scotch and one Beer is my tenant" method.


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*Off topic*

You're Derek, aren't you? If so, what happened to your old name/account? I recognize the bit that is under your username.

I sure am. I'm not sure what happened. I had taken a little time off of researching and brewing to get my house (new baby coming) and yard in order. I tried to sign in again and it wasn't letting me. The only thing I can think is that I fat fingered the delete account button somehow.

I'm back! Looking to get a BDSA in the bottle before the new addition to my family gets here!

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2015, 06:31:52 pm »
Mark, it's good to know it's not just me that experiences a sluggish fermentation and not as good a beer from a first generation. It's kind of annoying really.

I never judge a yeast culture/strain by the initial pitch results.  My best beers come from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th repitches.

Offline beersk

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2015, 07:49:32 pm »
Mark, it's good to know it's not just me that experiences a sluggish fermentation and not as good a beer from a first generation. It's kind of annoying really.

I never judge a yeast culture/strain by the initial pitch results.  My best beers come from the 3rd, 4th, and 5th repitches.

Righteous. And I agree. I'm always afraid I'm not being sanitary enough when I harvest yeast, even though I'm pretty OCD about it.

Derek, welcome back.
Jesse

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2015, 06:36:29 pm »
Mark-
so for 5-gal of average OG lager beer...say around 1.052-055, what size starter are you pitching at high krausen or shortly thereafter? i'd likely go around 1.030 on my starter wort....1L, 1.5L?
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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2015, 08:17:00 pm »
The method is informally called "Shaken, not Stirred," or the "James Bond Method."

Can we call it the "Broccoli Method"? Fleming's Bond drinks stirred gin martinis as any proper Englishman would. ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 08:45:48 pm by a10t2 »
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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2015, 08:32:06 pm »
Mark-
so for 5-gal of average OG lager beer...say around 1.052-055, what size starter are you pitching at high krausen or shortly thereafter? i'd likely go around 1.030 on my starter wort....1L, 1.5L?

I never pitch more than a 1L starter per 5 gallons of wort, ale or lager.  I often pitch 300ml starters in 5-gallon ale batches, but it is not something that I recommend to people who do not like British-style ale (i.e., an ale with detectable amount of fruitiness).  I would bump your starter gravity up to 1.040 when using a culture that is under 4 months old.  The extra carbon can be beneficial, and the cells are healthy enough to withstand the gravity.

Offline blatz

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2015, 08:41:21 pm »
ken/mark - how many vials/packs of lager yeast are you starting with?
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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2015, 09:00:32 pm »
ken/mark - how many vials/packs of lager yeast are you starting with?

me- i have not deviated from the yeast calc estimates and recommended amounts for stir plate and lagers....so that's why i'm asking because one vial or smack pack in 1L of 1.040 wort is clearly significantly less than what we are used to pitching. seems to be just fine based upon others trying this method- i just haven't done it as of yet.

for ales, i've skipped the starter all together with white labs pure pitch- 1-4 week old yeast up to 1.065OG with great results.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:18:32 pm by Wort-H.O.G. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2015, 09:37:22 pm »
ken/mark - how many vials/packs of lager yeast are you starting with?

Yes, I too am curious about this one as well.  1 pack in 1 qt starter (1.040) shaken method pitched at high krausen sounds really low to me especially when pitched at 50F...

At least compared to past practices (and every pitching rate calculator out there). And if the starter is supposed to ferment at room temps (i.e. 70F or so) and then pitched at high krausen isn't there risk of shocking the yeast when pitching the warmer starter into significantly cooler wort?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 09:39:01 pm by brewinhard »

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Re: Shaken not stirred lager starter?
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2015, 06:14:38 pm »
ken/mark - how many vials/packs of lager yeast are you starting with?

I usually start with a couple of 4mm loop scrapes from slant that I used to inoculate 40ml or autoclaved 5% w/v (1.020) wort.  That culture is stepped to 600ml or 1L.   It's not something that I would recommend to other people. When using commercial yeast, I have never used more than one White Labs vial or a Wyeast smack pack.