Author Topic: Specialty Beer Ingredients  (Read 725 times)

Offline tesgüino

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Specialty Beer Ingredients
« on: September 30, 2015, 06:20:30 PM »
Question about what information judges receive. In a competition using 2008 Guidelines I entered a specialty beer where, "Polish Grodziskie / 100% Oak Smoked Wheat" went into the Special Ingredients/Classic Style block on the form. I got my results back and all it says by Special Ingredients on both scoresheets is "Oak Smoked Wheat". Nothing about the Grodziskie style or being 100% Oak Smoked Wheat. Since judges don't see the entry form, how do they get the description? Does it come from a steward?

Asking because, from the comments, it sounded like either they didn't know it was a Grodziskie or they didn't know what a Grodziskie was.

One judge was Recognized the other was Professional Brewer (non-bjcp)

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 06:54:59 PM »
The flight sheet has any specialty ingredients listed. usually this is printed from the software and is exactly what you entered. The note on the sheet what they are told or read on the flight sheet.

They may not have known what the style was, recognized is really the lowest rank that has taken the tasting exam and professional brewers may or may not be familiar with the style.
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Offline tesgüino

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 07:35:52 PM »
So any table with specialty ingredients gets a sheet listing them. What's written on the scoresheet is the judge  paraphrasing what he's read or sometimes what he's been told by a steward? The reading part should work, but the telephone game could be iffy.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2015, 12:12:17 PM »
So any table with specialty ingredients gets a sheet listing them. What's written on the scoresheet is the judge  paraphrasing what he's read or sometimes what he's been told by a steward? The reading part should work, but the telephone game could be iffy.

yeah, more or less. either the head judge or the steward will usually read the special ingredients when they announce the entry. Something along the lines of 'Entry 3C is a specialty beer, Polish Grodziskie with 100% oak smoked wheat. what the judges note on the sheet is mostly so you as the entrant knows that they got your instructions.

that said, if the judges are not familiar with the style it makes it even harder to set aside your preconceptions and give the beer a fair assessment based on the guidelines.

You can get some good feedback from contests but it's important to remember that it's just humans doing their best and sometimes you get the wrong judges or get them on the wrong day. take heart and know that if you entered the same beer in several more comps you would likely get a different result at least once.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2015, 12:22:53 PM »

...from the comments, it sounded like either they didn't know it was a Grodziskie or they didn't know what a Grodziskie was.


can you be a little more specific about what they wrote that makes you think this?  thanks.

Offline tesgüino

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 03:02:09 AM »
...from the comments, it sounded like either they didn't know it was a Grodziskie or they didn't know what a Grodziskie was.

can you be a little more specific about what they wrote that makes you think this?  thanks.
"Malt bill falls flat with complex adjuncts."
Why would you mention adjuncts in a beer that described as 100% Oak Smoked Wheat?

"Kinda odd. Not really smokey or oaky in flavor or aroma."
You don't get oaky from oak smoked wheat. What you do get is a softer smoke character.

"High carbonation made it foam over when poured."
When you pour a beer carbed to well over 3 volumes into a little taster cup, I guess that's what happens.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 08:39:38 PM by tesgüino »

Offline udubdawg

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2015, 03:34:35 AM »
OK, thx.
Let me just say that not everyone understands how to give feedback.
Pretty much anyone should be able to read style guidelines and say your beer missed the mark in these areas: a,b c.
Unfortunately that happens fairly rarely. I'm hopeful for some changes soon in this area.
I tend to think they did know what it was, but didn't know how to judge it.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2015, 12:31:38 PM »
OK, thx.
Let me just say that not everyone understands how to give feedback.
Pretty much anyone should be able to read style guidelines and say your beer missed the mark in these areas: a,b c.
Unfortunately that happens fairly rarely. I'm hopeful for some changes soon in this area.
I tend to think they did know what it was, but didn't know how to judge it.

+1 those are the kind of comments that you get from less experienced and trained judges. enter it in another couple comps and just use these sheets for fire starters
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 12:47:44 PM »
Note to self when judging: Chances are that the brewer will only remember the score you give it, maybe one or two notes. So, think for ten seconds and make your notes something worthy of remembering.  Even if that means writing just one or two things.

Or, go ahead and write a bunch of self important hoyti toyti sounding gobblti-gook just for the sake of filling all the space. That way you'll be famous. The brewer will remember YOU instead of what you wrote.

Offline tesgüino

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 01:31:06 PM »
Edited my post above to vent a little, but really, I get what you're saying. I know to not put too much concern into results from one competition. Reading the score sheet just made me question how judges got specialty beer information and that's been answered. Thanks.

At 3.2% abv, this was a thirst quenching, tasty lawn mower beer. Wasn't expecting much from the competition except to get an opinion on how close I came to style. Looking forward to trying again next summer.

Offline udubdawg

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2015, 09:25:43 PM »
Not really sure what Jim's post was saying, but if OP wants to send me a couple I'll review one and put the other in front of the people that helped on the relevant guidelines.

A great many people have trouble understanding feedback on a test of knowledge vs a real scoresheet. As I mentioned offhand before I have reason to believe BJCP is working on improving Feedback/Overall. But that effort is outside my area of work, though arguably my biggest passion re: judging.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2015, 10:36:47 PM »
It was just a note to self. The issue the OP posted reinforces that I don't need to worry about filling in all of the blank space so much as I need to worry about being concise, accurate and understood

Offline tesgüino

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Re: Specialty Beer Ingredients
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 05:56:30 PM »
. . .  if OP wants to send me a couple I'll review one and put the other in front of the people that helped on the relevant guidelines. . .
Nice offer! I'd like to take you up on it sometime, but not with this batch. It's gone done been all drank up.  ;D