[evil_morty]

on reading this post again- I also agree this would have originally not been something I would have been interested in brewing-  However looking at your recommendations, I have a feeling you like the same types of IPAs that I do- and these style is goona catch on-  there is still enough bitteress for the hardcore hop heads- however even NON-IPA drinkers were loving this beer due to its super fruity drinkability

there is a big shift as of late for IPAs to not be just about the IBUs anymore.  the IBUs are coming down into a more balanced territory and the flavor/aroma is going WAY up.

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

Totally agree- I went on that journey as most do- started out seeking the highest IBU monsters till I found the one that finally shut me down!  Now its all about the flavor profile of the hops for me-  I love the fruit forward varietals at the moment

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

First wort hopping and whirlpool hop additions are in style as well- adding to that round bitterness instead of that sharp bite from a 60 min addition

[brewday]

There was a beer just launched a few weeks ago in Austin and the brewer told me he did only mid to late additions.  I agree with your initial statement of a piddly hop bill.  However after having his IPA, i was just floored.  Only Mosaic and Citra at 30min or below.  It was a full 60 min boil and it was about 5.5% and 60 IBUs and it was an incredibly delicious fruit bomb.

Just guessing here, but I bet the brewer uses a modest amount of M & C at 30 minutes and then hammers it at around 10 min thru the end of boil.  You can still get significant IBUs late in the boil/whirlpool, and that's probably where most of them are coming from here.

What you have here now looks like a fairly bitter beer with very little flavor and aroma.

[blatz]

What you have here now looks like a fairly bitter beer with very little flavor and aroma.

totally agree.  I wouldn't mind trying to brew an all late IPA, but those mid boil additions, plus so little in amount at late boil and flameout/whirlpool, not to mention dryhop, leave me thinking its going to be very lacking in what the OP was targeting.

but if this is exactly how the pro does it, who knows? 

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

There was a beer just launched a few weeks ago in Austin and the brewer told me he did only mid to late additions.  I agree with your initial statement of a piddly hop bill.  However after having his IPA, i was just floored.  Only Mosaic and Citra at 30min or below.  It was a full 60 min boil and it was about 5.5% and 60 IBUs and it was an incredibly delicious fruit bomb.

Just guessing here, but I bet the brewer uses a modest amount of M & C at 30 minutes and then hammers it at around 10 min thru the end of boil.  You can still get significant IBUs late in the boil/whirlpool, and that's probably where most of them are coming from here.

What you have here now looks like a fairly bitter beer with very little flavor and aroma.

Very interesting...

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

What you have here now looks like a fairly bitter beer with very little flavor and aroma.

totally agree.  I wouldn't mind trying to brew an all late IPA, but those mid boil additions, plus so little in amount at late boil and flameout/whirlpool, not to mention dryhop.

but if this is exactly how the pro does it, who knows?

Dont get me wrong this has been modified from his recipe.  I am making a few mods in the recipe on times and actual hops used.  Now looking at it- I am beginning to agree the lacking of aroma additions

[evil_morty]

There was a beer just launched a few weeks ago in Austin and the brewer told me he did only mid to late additions.  I agree with your initial statement of a piddly hop bill.  However after having his IPA, i was just floored.  Only Mosaic and Citra at 30min or below.  It was a full 60 min boil and it was about 5.5% and 60 IBUs and it was an incredibly delicious fruit bomb.

Just guessing here, but I bet the brewer uses a modest amount of M & C at 30 minutes and then hammers it at around 10 min thru the end of boil.  You can still get significant IBUs late in the boil/whirlpool, and that's probably where most of them are coming from here.

What you have here now looks like a fairly bitter beer with very little flavor and aroma.

that's closer to how I typically do things.  when forming the recipe I build up the flavor/aroma hop levels that I want and then add in a boil addition until I hit hit the IBUs I want.

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

.75oz Galaxy 30min
.75oz Mosaic 20min
.50oz Galaxy 15min
1oz Citra 10min
.75oz Galaxy Dryhop
.25oz Mosaic dryhop
1oz Citra dryhop

Keeps me around 65 IBUs
thoughts?

[hopfenundmalz]

I'm brewing a Ron Mexico clone today, 11 gallons using HBC-438 at 16.6% AA.
.25 oz. at 90.
1.0 oz at 15
3.75 oz at flameout for a 45 min whirlpool

Should be around 70 IBU.

That is loaded up at the end.

Dry hops will be 2 stages, 0.5 oz per gallon each stage.

[blatz]

I'm brewing a Ron Mexico clone today, 11 gallons using HBC-438 at 16.6% AA.
.25 oz. at 90.
1.0 oz at 15
3.75 oz at flameout for a 45 min whirlpool

Should be around 70 IBU.

That is loaded up at the end.

Dry hops will be 2 stages, 0.5 oz per gallon each stage.

that's more like it 

[HoosierBrew]

OP, here's another approach (the one I use for APA, AIPA) : Add your 65 IBUs for 60 mins using Columbus (for IPA), and add all of your would-be boil additions post boil, after cooling to 175F for a hop stand. Stir well every few minutes for 30 minutes then finish cooling. You'll get nice flavor and aroma, and whatever IBUs calculate from this are not really noticeable to your palate. Then double the dry hops.

[evil_morty]

Here is an example of the hopping on a hoppy ale I have made recently.  This is a 10 gallon batch.

kettle hops:

0.6 oz columbus @ 90 mins
0.6 oz nugget @ 90 mins
1 oz chinook @ 5 mins
1 oz citra @ 5 mins
2 oz amarillo @ flameout
2 oz chinook (hopstand @ 165F for 30 mins)
1 oz citra (hopstand @ 165F for 30 mins)

primary dry hop (after fermentation is mostly complete)
1.5 oz chinook for 4-5 days @60F
1.5 oz citra for 4-5 days @60F

keg hop (per keg so now we are talking about 5 gallons)
1 oz amarillo
2 oz simcoe

[dilluh98]

OP, here's another approach (the one I use for APA, AIPA) : Add your 65 IBUs for 60 mins using Columbus (for IPA), and add all of your would-be boil additions post boil, after cooling to 175F for a hop stand. Stir well every few minutes for 30 minutes then finish cooling. You'll get nice flavor and aroma, and whatever IBUs calculate from this are not really noticeable to your palate. Then double the dry hops.

+1 to this. I think that the flavor and aroma you get from anything in the 10-30 min boil range is actually quite minimal and sort of a waste IMO. This could also be related to brewing scale/setup as mentioned earlier.

Just get the clean bittering backbone with a Warrior, Magnum, etc. at 60 min or FWH and then blast away at 0 min and especially a nice long whirlpool/stand at ~180 F. Then tons of dry hop. I've enjoyed this approach (especially the long and large amount of hops at 180F) that I've given up on any flavor/aroma hop additions at > 0 min. I brew more English IPAs than American ones and the long whirlpool is really where it's at for that style, IMO.

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

So i really like the direction y'all are leading me-  Few questions:

How do you calculate IBUs when making whirlpool additions?

How do you account for the extra loss of wort(evaporation) during whirlpool?


*****************
.5oz warrior  60min

whirlpool:
1oz Galaxy
.75oz Mosaic
.50oz Citra

Dry hop:
1oz Galaxy
.50oz Citra
.25oz Mosaic

Thoughts?