[HoosierBrew]

I don't even figure the IBUs from the stand - steeping at that cooler temp you won't notice the IBUs much, if at all. So they're just numbers at that point. And I keep the lid mostly on during the steep, removing just to stir, so I don't account for evaporation either. Personally, I think your hop numbers are still in APA territory. I'd double both sets of amounts.  My $0.02

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

I was always taught to never put the lib on-  is that only for the boil?

[HoosierBrew]

I was always taught to never put the lib on-  is that only for the boil?

No, I don't ever use a lid for the boil, just for the hop stand - no worries.

EDIT - Sorry, misread. Yes, only for boil.

[a10t2]

How do you calculate IBUs when making whirlpool additions?

I figure 8% utilization, roughly equivalent to a 10 min boil addition, but that's just because I like putting numbers on things. I doubt you'll notice the added bitterness.

How do you account for the extra loss of wort(evaporation) during whirlpool?

With the wort off a boil, you shouldn't see any significant evaporation.

Thoughts?

4 oz of hops in 5 gal is 1.5 lb/bbl, solidly in APA territory. I'd wager your friend's "fruit bomb" was >3 lb/bbl.

Have you mashed this grist before? Starting with RO water, adding a bunch of calcium salts with no alkalinity, and then throwing acid on top of it, I don't see how your pH for a pale wort could end up where you want it.

I was always taught to never put the lib on-  is that only for the boil?

Right, by the time you're done boiling you've driven off all the DMS (or you need to boil longer).

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

How do you calculate IBUs when making whirlpool additions?

I figure 8% utilization, roughly equivalent to a 10 min boil addition, but that's just because I like putting numbers on things. I doubt you'll notice the added bitterness.

How do you account for the extra loss of wort(evaporation) during whirlpool?

With the wort off a boil, you shouldn't see any significant evaporation.

Thoughts?

4 oz of hops in 5 gal is 1.5 lb/bbl, solidly in APA territory. I'd wager your friend's "fruit bomb" was >3 lb/bbl.

Have you mashed this grist before? Starting with RO water, adding a bunch of calcium salts with no alkalinity, and then throwing acid on top of it, I don't see how your pH for a pale wort could end up where you want it.

I was always taught to never put the lib on-  is that only for the boil?

Right, by the time you're done boiling you've driven off all the DMS (or you need to boil longer).

Glad you asked the question on mash adjustments-

i have always used bottled water that i knew the chemistry to and used my phh-7011 for mash pH.  However i just moved and now live in a house where the water is absolutely terrible.  I have a whole house water softner(even hose water is soft) and a really nice under sink RO system.  I have had chats with numerous people on whether to use soft water, RO water or a blend of the two.  I got my ward Lab report back and was pleasantly surprised.  Assuming it would be terribly high in Sodium and Potassium.  It was a bit high in Sodium at 109ppm but potassium was on 2ppm.

Using 50% soft water and 50% RO water put me right into the areas i was wanting for my IPAs- however - ihave been told over and over again to go straight RO....

Any help would be great

[dilluh98]

So i really like the direction y'all are leading me-  Few questions:

How do you calculate IBUs when making whirlpool additions?

How do you account for the extra loss of wort(evaporation) during whirlpool?


*****************
.5oz warrior  60min

whirlpool:
1oz Galaxy
.75oz Mosaic
.50oz Citra

Dry hop:
1oz Galaxy
.50oz Citra
.25oz Mosaic

Thoughts?

Although I agree with others that whirlpool hops are hard to calculate IBUs for, if you're really Jonesing for a number, I believe Beersmith takes half of the IBUs for equivalent boil time. For example: say a 20 min boil addition of 1 oz Citra is 20 IBUs. A 20 min whirlpool using 1 oz Citra would then be 10 IBUs. In Brad Smith's podcast (creator of Beersmith), he has mentioned that this is just a rough estimate and he thinks it's difficult to put an IBU number on whirlpool hops.

I think roughly 0.5 oz/gallon for whirlpool and 1 oz/gallon for dry hop is a decent starting point for AIPA.

[HoosierBrew]

The X factor though is the steep temp. IBUS from the oz of Citra at a 200F steep are way different from the oz @ 170F. Cooler = less IBUs obviously, but I've yet to see a good rough guide on how much less - which is why I just trust my palate there. At 175F-ish I think the contribution to bitterness is negligible.

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

The X factor though is the steep temp. IBUS from the oz of Citra at a 200F steep are way different from the oz @ 170F. Cooler = less IBUs obviously, but I've yet to see a good rough guide on how much less - which is why I just trust my palate there. At 175F-ish I think the contribution to bitterness is negligible.

Right on- 175/180 would definitely be my target range

[narvin]

Glad you asked the question on mash adjustments-

i have always used bottled water that i knew the chemistry to and used my phh-7011 for mash pH.  However i just moved and now live in a house where the water is absolutely terrible.  I have a whole house water softner(even hose water is soft) and a really nice under sink RO system.  I have had chats with numerous people on whether to use soft water, RO water or a blend of the two.  I got my ward Lab reprot back and was pleasantly.  Assuming it would be terribly high in Sodium and Potassium.  It was abit high in Sodium at 109ppm but potassium was on 2ppm.

Using 50% soft water and 50% RO water put me right into the areas i was wanting for my IPAs- however - ihave been told over and over again to go straight RO....

Any help would be great

I'd suggest taking a mash reading before adding the lactic acid.  I'd expect that you need little or none to hit 5.35 -- definitely not 4 ml.

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

Glad you asked the question on mash adjustments-

i have always used bottled water that i knew the chemistry to and used my phh-7011 for mash pH.  However i just moved and now live in a house where the water is absolutely terrible.  I have a whole house water softner(even hose water is soft) and a really nice under sink RO system.  I have had chats with numerous people on whether to use soft water, RO water or a blend of the two.  I got my ward Lab reprot back and was pleasantly.  Assuming it would be terribly high in Sodium and Potassium.  It was abit high in Sodium at 109ppm but potassium was on 2ppm.

Using 50% soft water and 50% RO water put me right into the areas i was wanting for my IPAs- however - ihave been told over and over again to go straight RO....

Any help would be great

I'd suggest taking a mash reading before adding the lactic acid.  I'd expect that you need little or none to hit 5.35 -- definitely not 4 ml.

for straight RO water? and keep the 8g gypsum and 4g CC?

[HoosierBrew]

I'd suggest taking a mash reading before adding the lactic acid.  I'd expect that you need little or none to hit 5.35 -- definitely not 4 ml.

+1

[a10t2]

The X factor though is the steep temp. IBUS from the oz of Citra at a 200F steep are way different from the oz @ 170F. Cooler = less IBUs obviously, but I've yet to see a good rough guide on how much less - which is why I just trust my palate there. At 175F-ish I think the contribution to bitterness is negligible.

To throw in a fun wrinkle, the different alpha acids also have different isomerization temperatures. I think that, rather than the temperature difference itself, is the dominant factor. Otherwise I would expect my 20°F reduction in boil temperature to have far more of an impact than the 20% reduction in IBU I actually see. But thus far, this is all based on a single data point.

[a10t2]

Using 50% soft water and 50% RO water put me right into the areas i was wanting for my IPAs- however - ihave been told over and over again to go straight RO....

What does your un-softened tap water look like? If you're planning on diluting anyway, the extra alkalinity might be preferable to excess sodium, although cutting it 50/50 the sodium probably won't be a concern either way.

[HoosierBrew]

The X factor though is the steep temp. IBUS from the oz of Citra at a 200F steep are way different from the oz @ 170F. Cooler = less IBUs obviously, but I've yet to see a good rough guide on how much less - which is why I just trust my palate there. At 175F-ish I think the contribution to bitterness is negligible.

To throw in a fun wrinkle, the different alpha acids also have different isomerization temperatures. I think that, rather than the temperature difference itself, is the dominant factor. Otherwise I would expect my 20°F reduction in boil temperature to have far more of an impact than the 20% reduction in IBU I actually see. But thus far, this is all based on a single data point.

Interesting. There's definitely a lot to be learned yet on hops. In the mean time I guess I'll just keep tinkering incrementally !

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

Using 50% soft water and 50% RO water put me right into the areas i was wanting for my IPAs- however - ihave been told over and over again to go straight RO....

What does your un-softened tap water look like? If you're planning on diluting anyway, the extra alkalinity might be preferable to excess sodium, although cutting it 50/50 the sodium probably won't be a concern either way.

the water is horrible- and i am unable to bypass the softner.  i have never built up RO water so i guess im just looking for some guidence/suggestions

i can use 100% RO water.  I took my ward results(softened water) and divided the m by 9(general rule i was told) to get an estimate on the RO.  I plugged those into Brewersfriend and EZwater cals.  each gave me different additions- basically i took the average for a pH range i was happy with(5.29-5.42pH) which was 8g gypsum and 4g CC along with 4ml lactic acid- but any info/suggestions you have would be great