Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times  (Read 5945 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27316
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2015, 11:45:18 am »
No swords, here...
I'm on a search for knowledge & don't want to be side-tracked by nonsense.
I'm a no-nonsense kind of guy.

Not everyone is willing to have a real dialogue.
When I ask a question & get the same derailing nonsense that I see every time a similar question pops up, it bothers me.
When I see lies spread to new brewers, telling them that a single infusion is all they'll ever need, it bothers me.

I have a firm belief that most of the decoction experiments I've seen are flawed.
That's not a crime, or insult.
I just believe they are flawed.

If you don't have data, you can say, "I don't have the data you seek".
It's OK to do that.

so why don't you do one the right way and provide us with data rather than insisting that your opinion is fact?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Kit B

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2015, 11:46:09 am »
If blind tasters could taste any of the things you're mentioning, I'd agree with you.  Until that happens, I can't.  Thanks for your thoughts.

When I get it dialed in, I'll do a triple-blind of my own.
I'll make sure to let you know, when I post the results.
Thanks, Denny.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27316
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2015, 11:46:37 am »
Hmmm...
Where to start...Let's see...
Here's a good start...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1999.tb00020.x/pdf

This article is heavy on terminology and big words but light with references to decoction mashing. Maybe I missed something. In fact I don't believe it references decoction mashing at all.

My problem with that article is that it's all about math and nothing about flavor.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I drink a beer, not measure it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2015, 11:47:56 am »
  I don't know about the rest of you, but I drink a beer, not measure it.


+1.  I don't drink numbers.
Jon H.

rabeb25

  • Guest
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2015, 11:48:57 am »
Hmmm...
Where to start...Let's see...
Here's a good start...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1999.tb00020.x/pdf

This article is heavy on terminology and big words but light with references to decoction mashing. Maybe I missed something. In fact I don't believe it references decoction mashing at all.

If no one here knows the math, I can delete this thread & go elsewhere.

I'm sure the HBT forum would love to have you. Your posting style reflects the general attitude and candor of that crowd.

Its not referencing decoction, its referencing temperatures at which enzymes are active and present. as I don't see a "1" temperature ( read English method, read single infusion) that meets all the enzymes, so therefore denotes a step mash or decoction(also a step mash) would need to be employed.

Offline Kit B

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2015, 11:50:12 am »
I'm sure the HBT forum would love to have you. Your posting style reflects the general attitude and candor of that crowd.

Actually, not at all.
I asked a set of questions & stated that I believe the experiments I've seen are flawed.
I went on to explain why & people got defensive.
I'm not demanding anything.
I was asking if anyone knows the math.
It's really OK to say "I don't know".


Offline tesgüino

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2015, 11:59:17 am »
I'm sure the HBT forum would love to have you. Your posting style reflects the general attitude and candor of that crowd.
Spoken like a true EAC.  :-X

Offline Kit B

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2015, 12:04:06 pm »
My problem with that article is that it's all about math and nothing about flavor.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I drink a beer, not measure it.

Sure...I understand.
I'm merely hoping to get at nut of the science, by asking questions in a place where educated brewers hang out.
If I can't ask questions related to brewing science, on a forum of The American Homebrewers Association (which I support & advocate), where do I ask them?

rabeb25

  • Guest
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2015, 12:09:04 pm »
Hmmm...
Where to start...Let's see...
Here's a good start...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1999.tb00020.x/pdf

This article is heavy on terminology and big words but light with references to decoction mashing. Maybe I missed something. In fact I don't believe it references decoction mashing at all.

My problem with that article is that it's all about math and nothing about flavor.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I drink a beer, not measure it.

I am not going to stir the pot, but I will say this...

How you got to said "flavor" has a "math" to it. Some prefer to know the math, some only know 10lb of grain at 153+ 2oz of a hop at 60 minute with this yeast, gives me a "flavor" I like. Its no big deal either way.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4467
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2015, 12:33:33 pm »
I'm sure the HBT forum would love to have you. Your posting style reflects the general attitude and candor of that crowd.
Spoken like a true EAC.  :-X

I have nothing to add about decoctions, but I will say that the OP was pretty much upfront about what he was looking for in his first post.  He believes decoctions work and doesn't wish to debate it.

I'm willing to leave it at that.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline Kit B

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2015, 12:35:38 pm »
Thank you.

RPIScotty

  • Guest
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2015, 12:45:17 pm »
I'm sure it's a bit basic compared to what you may be looking for but this is a pretty good article detailing the various methods and rests: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/decoction.html

Offline Kit B

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2015, 12:46:27 pm »
I'm sure it's a bit basic compared to what you may be looking for but this is a pretty good article detailing the various methods and rests: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/decoction.html

Cool.
Thanks!

RPIScotty

  • Guest
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2015, 12:53:23 pm »
I'm sure it's a bit basic compared to what you may be looking for but this is a pretty good article detailing the various methods and rests: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/decoction.html

Cool.
Thanks!

I think the main issue you may run into with the more complicated math (grain characteristics and their role) is this: as larger breweries move past this method and the homebrewing community gives up on it due to the lack of perceived benefit, your likely to find less and less information on the process.

Other than the basics of the method that are well documented. Good luck though.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10710
  • Milford, MI
Re: Step Mashing & Calculating Rest Times
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2015, 12:53:55 pm »
I do hochkurz decoctions a few times a year, just because.

The only triple decoction was with the Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian malt, Kohbach index = 38.4, which is just over Noonan's guide line the >38 is modified fully.

To be honest, I didn't notice a difference. It was not worth the effort in my book.

Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!