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Author Topic: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment  (Read 6898 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2015, 08:05:00 am »
Looks like I need to run another experiment: brew a cream ale with a really weak boil, with the lid on, but this time don't include any flaked corn, and see if I get any DMS.  Because as it stands, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between corn and DMS.  Nor could probably 99% of judges, so I don't feel too left out.
Dave

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2015, 08:05:23 am »
Cream Ale traditionally has a charge of flaked maize, sure it wasn't that you were picking up?

Very possible.  I guess I hadn't even considered that but it may be the truth.



I don't know. I make a cream ale with flaked maize and the corn gives it a slight sweetness, but I don't get DMS from it. It's a pretty clean beer.

There are corn aromas that are not creamed corn/DMS aroma. I always shake my head when I get a comment on a CAP or Cream Ale saying DMS from corm, when it just smells like corn and has that corn sweetness. Does anyone get DMS from a corn tortilla shell?

good point jeff. Imagine this:

"i often send my corn tortilla tacos back, telling the waiter i detected DMS"....Hahaha  ::)
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2015, 08:06:10 am »
Very, very interesting.  Nice job!!

60 minute boils from here on out, starting with the German pils that's coming up soon.

Jon, if you're using Avangard pils for this, please report back!

i use avangard pils...no issues at all at 60 minutes.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2015, 08:07:42 am »
Imagine this:

"i often send my corn tortilla tacos back, telling the waiter i detected DMS"....Hahaha  ::)

Heh heh..... this reminds me of the time at a competition where the judges were picking up DMS and diacetyl in every fricking beer........... until they realized there was a popcorn machine in the same room with them!  True story!
Dave

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Offline toby

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2015, 09:23:54 am »
Imagine this:

"i often send my corn tortilla tacos back, telling the waiter i detected DMS"....Hahaha  ::)

Heh heh..... this reminds me of the time at a competition where the judges were picking up DMS and diacetyl in every fricking beer........... until they realized there was a popcorn machine in the same room with them!  True story!

lol...was about to mention that I always think 'diacetyl' when somebody is popping popcorn in the break room.  On the other hand, there's a good chance that's exactly what it is.

Offline brewday

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2015, 09:50:37 am »
Very, very interesting.  Nice job!!

60 minute boils from here on out, starting with the German pils that's coming up soon.

Jon, if you're using Avangard pils for this, please report back!

i use avangard pils...no issues at all at 60 minutes.

Cool.  I think I'll proceed with the shorter boils then.

Offline beersk

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2015, 09:54:03 am »
Imagine this:

"i often send my corn tortilla tacos back, telling the waiter i detected DMS"....Hahaha  ::)

Heh heh..... this reminds me of the time at a competition where the judges were picking up DMS and diacetyl in every fricking beer........... until they realized there was a popcorn machine in the same room with them!  True story!

lol...was about to mention that I always think 'diacetyl' when somebody is popping popcorn in the break room.  On the other hand, there's a good chance that's exactly what it is.
I think diacetyl tastes a lot different among various styles though. It tends to be butterscotchy in hoppy styles, for instance.
Jesse

Offline denny

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2015, 09:54:55 am »
Gallo? Jerry Gallow is dead. I'm Jerry Callo

I'm gonna have to watch that movie now!
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Offline denny

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2015, 09:58:44 am »
Cream Ale traditionally has a charge of flaked maize, sure it wasn't that you were picking up?

Very possible.  I guess I hadn't even considered that but it may be the truth.


I don't know. I make a cream ale with flaked maize and the corn gives it a slight sweetness, but I don't get DMS from it. It's a pretty clean beer.

His point was more that some people smell 'corn' and think 'DMS' when it may literally be corn.

To me, DMS is a lot more like cooked cabbage than corn.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2015, 09:59:56 am »
Looks like I need to run another experiment: brew a cream ale with a really weak boil, with the lid on, but this time don't include any flaked corn, and see if I get any DMS.  Because as it stands, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between corn and DMS.  Nor could probably 99% of judges, so I don't feel too left out.

I likely could becasue I don't perceive DMS as corn.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline toby

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2015, 10:17:53 am »
I think diacetyl tastes a lot different among various styles though. It tends to be butterscotchy in hoppy styles, for instance.

There are also people who overdo it on the caramel/crystal malt, though.  That's why I tend to use mouthfeel as a sanity check for diacetyl.  There's a soapy/oily slickness to diacetyl.

Offline beersk

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2015, 11:20:20 am »
I think diacetyl tastes a lot different among various styles though. It tends to be butterscotchy in hoppy styles, for instance.

There are also people who overdo it on the caramel/crystal malt, though.  That's why I tend to use mouthfeel as a sanity check for diacetyl.  There's a soapy/oily slickness to diacetyl.
True. My palate isn't awesome, I wouldn't say, but I tend to perceive the flavor before the mouthfeel in most cases.
Jesse

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2015, 04:35:00 pm »

Cream Ale traditionally has a charge of flaked maize, sure it wasn't that you were picking up?

Very possible.  I guess I hadn't even considered that but it may be the truth.



I don't know. I make a cream ale with flaked maize and the corn gives it a slight sweetness, but I don't get DMS from it. It's a pretty clean beer.
Right there with you. My hunch is that many people smell that sweet slightly corn-like aroma and assume DMS.
Of course it exists, though I'm becoming more and more convinced what most beer evaluators/judges think is DMS probably isn't.

I think the same thing with diacetyl.  There are certain caramel-aromas that many people detect as butterscotch and automatically go to "diacetyl".  DMS and diacetyl are the boogeyman with some judges.  They're expecting them to be hiding under the bed, so they think they see them all the time.
Totally!!
Looks like I need to run another experiment: brew a cream ale with a really weak boil, with the lid on, but this time don't include any flaked corn, and see if I get any DMS.  Because as it stands, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between corn and DMS.  Nor could probably 99% of judges, so I don't feel too left out.
DMS isn't as corny as I think we've all been led to believe...
Looks like I need to run another experiment: brew a cream ale with a really weak boil, with the lid on, but this time don't include any flaked corn, and see if I get any DMS.  Because as it stands, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between corn and DMS.  Nor could probably 99% of judges, so I don't feel too left out.

I likely could becasue I don't perceive DMS as corn.
Me either! More like boiled cabbage, steamed broccoli, or as one of my buddies puts it, clogged dish disposal water.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Update: Lab Data on Pils Malt Boil Length exBEERiment
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2015, 05:00:46 pm »
As a clear data point, I make my berliner weisse with 50% pilsner/50% wheat malt, 149F conversion rest, followed by a 168-170F mash-out.  I DO NOT boil the beer at all and get ZERO DMS whatsoever!  I have sent this beer into many comps with no mention of DMS either.  The typical lacto fermentation that I use is not very vigorous either (suggesting that it is not blown off as a volatile through fermentation at least in this fashion on this beer). 

So, I really wonder now how much SMM is actually in today's modified pilsner malt itself from kilning?