[a10t2]

I agree with your theory, Ken.  Malts today are so "hot" with diastatic power that mash temp makes much less difference to attenuation than it used to.  There may be a difference between 148 and 158, but there's no discernible difference between 150 1nd 152.  The best way to control body is through your recipe.

That's been my experience. For most beers I'm now mashing at either 67°C (~152°F) or 71°C (~160°F). That's only the difference between ~78% and ~83% ADF when fermented with 1272, which has its attenuation maximum right around 67°C. What's interesting is that the other two strains I've been using show such clear trends with such different maxima. Of course, it isn't much data to go on yet:

[hopfenundmalz]

Sean, that data opens up some new thinking for me. I need to look at the Greg Doss experiment, and Kai's. They used pills malt, what yeast did they use? Looks like a good thesis experiment!

[TexasHumuluslupulushead]

this thread is a great read...

[narvin]

I agree with your theory, Ken.  Malts today are so "hot" with diastatic power that mash temp makes much less difference to attenuation than it used to.  There may be a difference between 148 and 158, but there's no discernible difference between 150 1nd 152.  The best way to control body is through your recipe.

That's been my experience. For most beers I'm now mashing at either 67°C (~152°F) or 71°C (~160°F). That's only the difference between ~78% and ~83% ADF when fermented with 1272, which has its attenuation maximum right around 67°C. What's interesting is that the other two strains I've been using show such clear trends with such different maxima. Of course, it isn't much data to go on yet:

That's interesting that you get such good attenuation with 2206 at 156*.  Is this a full size mash with a standard crush?  What malt where you using?  And for how long?

[a10t2]

That's interesting that you get such good attenuation with 2206 at 156*.  Is this a full size mash with a standard crush?  What malt where you using?  And for how long?

All either 6 or 11 gal batches, 60 min single-infusion rest, single batch sparge. Base malts are almost entirely Rahr 2-row for the 1272 batches, and Weyermann Pils/Munich for 2206/3522, but there's a lot of variation in recipes in there.

Edit: Forgot to mention, mill is a Barley Crusher, hand cranked, gap at 0.030".

[narvin]

I can't say that I've tried mashing that high with Pilsner malt and lager yeast.  I'd assume your beer with 3522 was also a Pilsner base malt.

 I wonder if a longer low temp mash would be different...  I usually go for more than 60 mins when mashing below 150 because it seems like full conversion at that temp takes a while in a cooler at the homebrew scale.

[rebuiltcellars]

Sean, that data opens up some new thinking for me. I need to look at the Greg Doss experiment, and Kai's. They used pills malt, what yeast did they use? Looks like a good thesis experiment!

It makes perfect sense that yeast strain would have an impact on mash temperature fermentability.  All strains can make short work of simple sugars, but I suspect that higher attenuating strains are that way in part because they are more efficient at breaking down slightly more complex sugars.  As the mash temperature shifts away from favoring beta amylase and toward alpha amylase, the distribution of sugars increases.  Logically, that would mean strains with higher tolerances for complex sugars would see a slower reduction in attenuation as mash temperature increases.
Definitely grist here for a thesis experiment.

[hopfenundmalz]

Sean, that data opens up some new thinking for me. I need to look at the Greg Doss experiment, and Kai's. They used pills malt, what yeast did they use? Looks like a good thesis experiment!

It makes perfect sense that yeast strain would have an impact on mash temperature fermentability.  All strains can make short work of simple sugars, but I suspect that higher attenuating strains are that way in part because they are more efficient at breaking down slightly more complex sugars.  As the mash temperature shifts away from favoring beta amylase and toward alpha amylase, the distribution of sugars increases.  Logically, that would mean strains with higher tolerances for complex sugars would see a slower reduction in attenuation as mash temperature increases.
Definitely grist here for a thesis experiment.

I thought the same thing during a period of insomnia last night.

Some of the Belgian yeast, thinking Saison yeasts, are speculated to have come from wine yeast. Those would chew through simple sugars, as that's what grapes have. Lager yeasts can consume more maltotiose than ale yeasts, so the have some high attenuation limits compared to some ale yeast.

So yeah, the attenuation would depend on the malt's enzyme concentrations, the mash temp profile to make the most of those enzymes, and what yeast is going to be used. Lots of variables to work through, looks like a candidate for a DFSS experiment.

[charles1968]

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24629.msg314350#msg314350