Author Topic: first time for everything...uugghhh!  (Read 2269 times)

S. cerevisiae

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2015, 02:21:56 PM »
Any spirits at 140 proof or higher would be sufficient, but as Mark mentioned that gets to be cost prohibitive.

Ethanol is slightly less effective than isopropanol.   From what I understand, the additives in isopropynol are sucrose octaacetate and denatonum benzoate.  Both of these compounds are bittering agents to dissuade people from drinking the stuff.  Ethanol is a also toxin.  We just to do not recognize it as one.  Ethanol is broken down into acetaldehyde by the human body. Acetaldehyde damages human tissue.

This post makes remember reading a piece on why beer is an acquired taste.  Humans are naturally programmed to reject bitter tasting substances because most bitter things in nature are poisonous. 

As my wife likes to say, everything, including water, is toxic in high enough quantities.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 12:00:19 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Phil_M

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2015, 05:12:48 PM »
I've been wondering if I've been fighting a mild persistent infection in my beers. My thoughts on using rubbing alcohol as a "nuclear" option for a few beers and see where that leads me.

With my brewery I really require a no-rinse sanitizer, unless I did all my sanitizing on the complete other end of the condo. With a no-rinse option I can tackle everything in the garage. Iodophor may be my eventual choice for a sanitizer, but I'd like to prove to myself that star-san isn't killing what's in my garage before I switch to a product that can stain.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline beersk

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2015, 05:22:43 PM »
How hard are you guys smacking the pack?  I've used hundreds of packs of it and never had that happen.
This has happened to me before too. It's called a smack pack, you smack it...so hard enough to break the packet inside. Sometimes it doesn't wanna break. It's not that out there for one to break open now and then. Now if it was already partially puffed up before smacking, I probably wouldn't try to break the inner packet in that case.

Offline a10t2

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2015, 05:37:40 PM »
I'd like to prove to myself that star-san isn't killing what's in my garage before I switch to a product that can stain.

Do you do wort stability tests? That's the first step. From there, assuming something turns up, you could move to pre-poured plates to narrow it down (HLP for Lacto/Pedio, SDA for Aceto/Entero, agar for yeast).

Edit for formatting.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 05:39:38 PM by a10t2 »
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2015, 05:42:21 PM »
Ya I dont think I want to be sprizing alcohol clouds around on brew day.

I flame all my brewery glassware. Why turn down an opportunity to play with fire?
Near the boil kettle with the fire going? If I used a spray bottle of alcohol the way I use starsan, I would be missing even more hair.

Offline a10t2

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2015, 06:24:59 PM »
Near the boil kettle with the fire going? If I used a spray bottle of alcohol the way I use starsan, I would be missing even more hair.

Why would you be sanitizing the kettle during the boil, though?

And I'm not "missing" hair, it's just migrating.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2015, 08:36:29 PM »
Near the boil kettle with the fire going? If I used a spray bottle of alcohol the way I use starsan, I would be missing even more hair.

Why would you be sanitizing the kettle during the boil, though?

And I'm not "missing" hair, it's just migrating.
I wouldn't. I'm just imagining a cloud of vaporized alcohol drifting over to my burners.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2015, 12:04:28 AM »
I've been wondering if I've been fighting a mild persistent infection in my beers. My thoughts on using rubbing alcohol as a "nuclear" option for a few beers and see where that leads me.

With my brewery I really require a no-rinse sanitizer, unless I did all my sanitizing on the complete other end of the condo. With a no-rinse option I can tackle everything in the garage. Iodophor may be my eventual choice for a sanitizer, but I'd like to prove to myself that star-san isn't killing what's in my garage before I switch to a product that can stain.

If you do not want to use bleach and vinegar, you can use 12.5ppm iodophor.    Both solutions are no rinse and full spectrum.  I have been using 12.5ppm iodophor lately.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2015, 12:06:07 AM »
Do you do wort stability tests? That's the first step. From there, assuming something turns up, you could move to pre-poured plates to narrow it down (HLP for Lacto/Pedio, SDA for Aceto/Entero, agar for yeast).

I used Lin's Wild Yeast Medium to detect the wild yeast infection that was plaguing my brewery when I was using Star San.

Offline erockrph

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2015, 04:43:12 AM »
I've been wondering if I've been fighting a mild persistent infection in my beers. My thoughts on using rubbing alcohol as a "nuclear" option for a few beers and see where that leads me.

With my brewery I really require a no-rinse sanitizer, unless I did all my sanitizing on the complete other end of the condo. With a no-rinse option I can tackle everything in the garage. Iodophor may be my eventual choice for a sanitizer, but I'd like to prove to myself that star-san isn't killing what's in my garage before I switch to a product that can stain.

If you do not want to use bleach and vinegar, you can use 12.5ppm iodophor.    Both solutions are no rinse and full spectrum.  I have been using 12.5ppm iodophor lately.
Iodophor isn't sporicidal (neither is alcohol, by the way). If you're looking for a truly "nuclear" option then bleach is the way to go.

One other point of note regarding iodophor is that it may degrade certain types of silicone. In the medical field iodophors aren't used on silicone tubing as a precaution. I don't know how many brewers use silicone tubing on the cold side, but I figured I'd put that out there.

Personally, I have yet to run into any issues with Star-San in my brewery. I have several spray bottles of both Star San and Iodophor floating around and I feel comfortable reaching for either one if needed.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2015, 02:40:29 PM »
I've got a copper/stainless steel plate chiller, so bleach isn't an option.

I've also got silicone lines on my cold side.  :-\

Really, all this could just be in my head. My last two all-grain batches were infected, and while I'm pretty sure I identified the source of infection as being a blow-off tube I can't shake the worry that there's something living in my plate chiller.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Stevie

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2015, 02:44:48 PM »
Can't you bake your plate chiller to dry sterilize it?

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2015, 02:51:14 PM »
I've got a copper/stainless steel plate chiller, so bleach isn't an option.

I've also got silicone lines on my cold side.  :-\

Really, all this could just be in my head. My last two all-grain batches were infected, and while I'm pretty sure I identified the source of infection as being a blow-off tube I can't shake the worry that there's something living in my plate chiller.
Many bake their plate chillers in the oven, 375 F for an hour should do it.
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S. cerevisiae

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2015, 06:12:11 PM »
I've got a copper/stainless steel plate chiller, so bleach isn't an option.

I've also got silicone lines on my cold side.  :-\

You could try paracetic acid.    I do not believe that the problem is in your head.  Maryland's hot, hazy, and humid climate is the perfect breeding ground for hard to kill wild microflora. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 12:25:37 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Phil_M

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Re: first time for everything...uugghhh!
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2015, 08:08:11 PM »
Yeah, and brewing in an open garage isn't helping my odds. Still, I've got one or two bottles of beer that I brewed last summer that are still infection-free, so that's a good sign.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.